About us Login Get email updates
Research
Print

Media should opt out of forwarding Lieberman's dubious public option claims

October 28, 2009 2:41 pm ET — 68 Comments

Media outlets continue to uncritically report Sen. Joe Lieberman's (I-CT) statement that he will oppose cloture for the Senate health care reform bill because he believes the opt-out public option provision Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has said will be included in the bill would increase the national debt and burden the taxpayers. However, while Reid's bill has not yet been released, every proposed bill with a public option thus far has required that those who enroll in the plan cover its costs through premiums, rather than have the plans be paid for through federal revenues.

More media outlets run with Lieberman's baseless claims

From an October 28 New York Times article:

Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut, an independent who caucuses with the Democrats, said he would vote to start debate and then join Republicans to fight the public option, which he said would become "another entitlement program that will end up increasing the national debt."

From an October 28 Wall Street Journal article:

Mr. Lieberman says he fears the public option won't be self-sustaining. "I think that a lot of people may think that the public option is free. It's not," Mr. Lieberman said. "It's going to cost the taxpayers and people that have health insurance now, and if it doesn't, it's going to add terribly to our national debt."

Bills already written with public option require its costs to be covered by premiums

House, Senate Health Committee bills require premiums to cover costs of public plan. Although the Senate has not released the text of its compromise bill, both the House tri-committee bill and the Senate HELP Committee's bill require their public options to charge premiums sufficient to cover administrative costs as well as the cost of enrollees' benefits.

From the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009, as introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives:

SEC. 222. PREMIUMS AND FINANCING.

(a) ESTABLISHMENT OF PREMIUMS. --

(1) IN GENERAL. -- The Secretary shall establish geographically-adjusted premium rates for the public health insurance option in a manner --

(A) that complies with the premium rules established by the Commissioner under section 113 for Exchange-participating health benefit plans; and

(B) at a level sufficient to fully finance the costs of --  

(i) health benefits provided by the public health insurance option; and

(ii) administrative costs related to operating the public health insurance option.

From the Affordable Health Choices Act as passed by the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee:

''(5) PREMIUMS. --

''(A) PREMIUMS SUFFICIENT TO COVER COSTS. -- The Secretary shall set premium rates in an amount sufficient to cover expected costs (including claims and administrative costs) using methods in general use by qualified health plans.

Bills' tax revenues are used to cover expansion of coverage, with or without public option

Senate Finance bill with no public option requires tax on high-cost plans to cover expansion of Medicaid and subsidies for lower- and middle-income Americans purchasing insurance. The revenues from the excise tax and penalty payments, along with the savings from Medicare, would pay for the expansion of the Medicaid program and the subsidies to help certain lower- and middle-income Americans purchase private insurance through the exchanges. From the Congressional Budget Office's (CBO) analysis of the Senate Finance Committee bill, which does not include a public option:

According to CBO and JCT's assessment, enacting the Chairman's mark, as amended, would result in a net reduction in federal budget deficits of $81 billion over the 2010-2019 period (see Table 1). The estimate includes a projected net cost of $518 billion over 10 years for the proposed expansions in insurance coverage. That net cost itself reflects a gross total of $829 billion in credits and subsidies provided through the exchanges, increased net outlays for Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP), and tax credits for small employers; those costs are partly offset by $201 billion in revenues from the excise tax on high-premium insurance plans and $110 billion in net savings from other sources. The net cost of the coverage expansions would be more than offset by the combination of other spending changes that CBO estimates would save $404 billion over the 10 years and other provisions that JCT and CBO estimate would increase federal revenues by $196 billion over the same period. In subsequent years, the collective effect of those provisions would probably be continued reductions in federal budget deficits. Those estimates are all subject to substantial uncertainty.

[...]

On a preliminary basis, CBO and JCT estimate that the proposal's specifications affecting health insurance coverage would result in a net increase in federal deficits of $518 billion over fiscal years 2010 through 2019. That estimate primarily reflects $345 billion in additional federal outlays for Medicaid and CHIP and $461 billion in federal subsidies that would be provided to purchase coverage through the new insurance exchanges and related spending. The other main element of the coverage provisions that would increase federal deficits is the tax credit for small employers who offer health insurance, which is estimated to reduce revenues by $23 billion over 10 years. Those costs would be partly offset by receipts or savings, totaling $311 billion over the 10-year budget window, from four sources: net revenues from the excise tax on high premium insurance plans, totaling $201 billion; penalty payments by uninsured individuals, which would amount to $4 billion; penalty payments by employers whose workers received subsidies via the exchanges, which would total $23 billion; and other budgetary effects, mostly on tax revenues, associated with the expansion of federally subsidized insurance, which would reduce deficits by $83 billion.

House tri-committee bill requires tax on high-income Americans to cover expansion of Medicaid and subsidies for lower- and middle-income Americans purchasing insurance. CBO's July 17 cost estimate of the House bill indicates that expanding Medicaid and providing subsidies for some families to purchase insurance through the exchanges would cost roughly $1.2 trillion. This cost is offset, in part, by revenues from a surtax on high-income Americans as well as savings from Medicare and other federal health programs. Congress Daily reported that House leaders "released CBO estimates for liberals' preferred version of the public option that show $85 billion more in savings than for the version the Blue Dogs prefer."

CBO score of Senate HELP bill shows bulk of cost is for subsidies for lower- and middle-income Americans purchasing insurance. CBO's July 2 analysis of the Senate HELP Committee's bill, which does include a public option, shows that the subsidies to help certain low- and middle-income Americans purchase insurance through the exchange would cost around $723 billion. CBO also found that the public option "did not have a substantial effect on the cost" projections for the bill.

Numerous media outlets reported Lieberman's claims

In October 27 articles, the Associated Press, Politico, CNN.com, and NBC News' FirstRead blog all uncritically reported Lieberman's stated rationale for saying he would join a filibuster of the Senate health care bill if it included an opt-out public option. By contrast, in an October 27 post to CBS News' Political Hotsheet blog, Stephanie Cordon wrote: "Lieberman has said he opposes a public option because of the potential burden it could place on taxpayers. However, Democrats have crafted a public option that would be financed by premiums rather than federal funds."

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by captfoster2 (October 28, 2009 2:48 pm ET)
      14 2
      Man, do I feel like a fool...

      That I actually voted for this piece of trash in 2000!

      I really wish this clown would simply call himself a Republican and be done with it!

      He is as much an Independent as Glenn Beck claims to be. A true Independent would be Jonathon Turley of GW University, not fools like LIEbermann
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Bad News (October 28, 2009 3:02 pm ET)
        7 4
        I don't get Joe Lieberman's Tact.
        The Nicer you treat him the Uglier he Acts.
        Does Joe think his Ego is more important than American Lives?
        It's getting to a point that whenever i see Joe i get the Hives.

        Speak truth to power.


        Mr. News
        Report Abuse
      • Author by all your eyes (October 28, 2009 3:04 pm ET)
        10 2
        My thinking is that Joe is acting this way precisely because he has no intention of facing CT voters again. At the end of this term, I bet he takes a lobbying gig and maybe a book deal (trashing Obama, no doubt). He's not looking out for Connecticut, he's looking out for Joe.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by worrierking (October 28, 2009 4:00 pm ET)
        5 1
        Don't beat yourself up. I'm even worse.

        I voted for him for VP in 2000 and I also voted for him as Senator in 1994. But in his first Senate race in 1988, I voted against him and for Lowell Weicker. I think that was the last time I voted for a Republican.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by all your eyes (October 28, 2009 4:13 pm ET)
          6 2
          There's no shame in a vote for Gore/Lieberman. Think about how much better off we'd be without $1 trillion on tax cuts, $1 trillion in Iraq, and all the executive power grabs and constitutional abbrogations of the last eight years? We'd probably have universal health care and a shrinking national debt...
          Report Abuse
          • Author by NoSpinner (October 28, 2009 8:35 pm ET)
            3  
            The one great thing about Gore's loss to Bush in 2000 was that Lieberman didn't become VP. Think about it - instead of Barack Obama, Lieberman could be president now.
            I should also like to commend McCain on choosing Sarah Palin over Joe Lieberman for VP. Sarah Palin is infinitely more qualified.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by bobklahn (October 29, 2009 9:32 am ET)
              4  
              *WRONG!!!*

              Gore didn't lose to Bush in 2000...

              Unless you mean in the supreme court... ok, Gore lost to Bush, in court.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by Missouri Democrat (October 29, 2009 3:31 pm ET)
          2  
          WK broaden that out a bit to say that you voted for a "known" republican. We both know he's been a DINO for several years now. I too voted for him in 2000, but I don't hold that against myself, I just wonder what the hell was Gore thinking?
          Report Abuse
      • Author by jcamp (October 28, 2009 7:56 pm ET)
        4  
        I know how you feel. I once voted for Michele Bachmann. At least I don't live in her district anymore.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by magnolialover (October 28, 2009 3:15 pm ET)
      9  
      If/when republicans, and others decide that they don't want to vote for cloture on this upcoming bill, democratic majority leadership should make them actually filibuster the bill, instead of just saying, "Oh, we don't have the votes, sorry.." Make those who don't want to vote it down get up there, keep the floor open (as they're supposed to), and if they slip up, oops, closed, time to proceed with an up or down vote. Make a show out of it. Actually, democrats should do this for ALL of the bills republicans have obstructed since they took over the Senate in the 2006 election. If they had to actually WORK for it, the republicans would probably not do it as much.

      And what happened to the whole war cry of "UP OR DOWN VOTES!!" when the democrats wanted to filibuster very small numbers of bills/nominees? Seems as though, republicans lost their minds when they lost the Senate, attaching cloture to every single bill brought up.

      And people wonder why the Senate can't get things done. And ironically enough, lots of times, it is republicans who "wonder" those things out loud, and I'm tired of nobody ever calling BS on them.

      Time to start dems, grow a pair, make them really filibuster if they're going to do it. Make them EARN it.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by historygeek001 (October 28, 2009 3:53 pm ET)
        8  
        YOU SAID IT!!! I've been wondering WTF the Dems were thinking when they allow filibusters w/o actually requiring them -- it's ridiculous to let the Republicans control what happens. It's beyond absurd.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by joedla1117 (October 29, 2009 9:39 pm ET)
             
          I agree. Filibusters must go away. They have been responsible for killing, or turning many very worth while bills into worthless sheets of paper. It is sad that a few of the very wealthy are paying for and controlling the lobbyists and in turn this.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by mikehuck1976 (October 30, 2009 4:40 pm ET)
        2  
        Absolutely, magnolia. I do not understand what the downside is to actually making someone actually filibuster. Let's see how far Lierberman will go to back his corporate interests over his constituents. I would love to see it.

        In reality, this actually a power move. Lieberman wants to be important and feel important, he is very needy. Either that, or he is going to retire and go to work in the health insurance field in Connecticut at the end of his term.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by lewislaw7153 (October 28, 2009 3:58 pm ET)
      7  
      "Another entitlement program . ."

      Yeah, Joe, we're all just gonna suck up all this health insurance . .

      Some of us are not as fortunate as you and some rich people who just write out a check after every physician visit or hospital stay . .

      Entitlement to stay alive and see a doctor without going bankrupt, and call it 'entitlement' . .

      I just hope the voters of Connecticut throw this bum out!!
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mikehuck1976 (October 30, 2009 4:37 pm ET)
        3  
        "Another entitlement program"

        Shouldn't the right-wingers (yes uncluding Liberman) that spout this crap actually go after the entitlement programs we already have? I mean if entitlement programs themselves are wrong then shouldn't they go after Social Security and Medicare? I wonder why the don't. Could it be because they are wildly popular and successful?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by only_myschly3567 (October 28, 2009 4:37 pm ET)
      5 1
      When the news outlets will actually say "which he said would become "another entitlement program that will end up increasing the national debt.". However, the CBO has concluded that the Public Option will do the opposite, that it will lower the national debt.", we'll have a good chance of Senators representing the people, not the lobbyists.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by fantagor (October 28, 2009 4:38 pm ET)
      6 1
      When I voted for Gore/Lieberman in 2000, I did so with a pinched nose because of the Lieberman. He was a soulless affable shill for corporate interests then, and 9 years later, he's threatening to kill a bill America badly needs.

      Good one, Connecticut, reelecting this hack! Next time, just defenestrate the nation. It'll be a quicker death.

      Randy
      Report Abuse
    • Author by rwmacdonald2091 (October 28, 2009 6:02 pm ET)
      6 2
      I think its time for Reid to have a long talk with Lieberman. In no uncertain terms Reid needs to tell him and the other democrats that are wavering, you either vote with the caucus on all procedural votes, or you lose your chair on any committees, and any party funds for campaigning.

      It's time for Reid to start leading the party, not asking what what to do.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by fairliberal (October 29, 2009 9:37 am ET)
          8
        Yeah really, why should individuals have the ability to make their own decisions, after all where do you think you are , America?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by missgirl (October 29, 2009 10:43 am ET)
          6  
          He's not an individual-he was elected to represent the citizens of Connecticut. He should be voting according to what they want.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Cheney2012 (October 30, 2009 8:29 am ET)
              4
            The citizens of CT are just about split on this bill. Lieberman should use his JUDGEMENT which is why we voted for him.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (October 29, 2009 11:24 am ET)
          5  
          Do you really think Republican senators and representatives under the Bush administration had individual choice? Do you really think Republican leadership tactics resemble anything remotely democratic? Do you not remember Bill "the Hammer" Frist?

          Wake up kid.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by John Paradox (October 29, 2009 5:45 pm ET)
            3  
            Tom "The Hammer (and bad dancer)" DeLay... not Frist.

            404 memory problem.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by roundhouse (October 29, 2009 6:51 pm ET)
              4  
              My mistake. Point taken. But really Delay, Frist. Tomato, tomahto. They're all interchangeable little conservative cookie cutter authoritarian ideologues. :)
              Report Abuse
          • Author by Cheney2012 (October 30, 2009 8:33 am ET)
              4
            Oh yeah, right:

            McCain, Graham, Collins, Snow, Specter, Chaffee. They all kept that toe bolted to the party line.

            Please stop confirming the feebleness of your mind with every post.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by mikehuck1976 (October 30, 2009 4:42 pm ET)
              3  
              Oh, wow. Which bills that Frist wanted passed did McCain or Specter filibuster? We'll eagerly await the answer...
              Report Abuse
        • Author by rwmacdonald2091 (October 29, 2009 1:15 pm ET)
          4  
          fairliberal, Lieberman can vote any way he wants on the bill. I said procedural votes, i.e. cloture.

          Then again the democrats can always use the reconciliation rules to pass health care reform, just like the republicans used reconciliation to pass tax cuts under Bush.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mikehuck1976 (October 30, 2009 4:43 pm ET)
            3  
            Psst. Fakeliberal does not understand the difference between votes on legislation and procedural votes. There was nothing in the Paris Business Review concerning these differences.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by jcamp (October 28, 2009 7:52 pm ET)
      5 1
      Do the Senate Democrats really have to keep going along with Joe Lieberman, though he continually acts like a Republican? The Democrats in his home state tried to get rid of him, but the general electorate chose to keep him for some reason. Then he supports John McCain against Barack Obama, and the Democrats welcome him back to the fold, complete with his committee chairmanship. Now he says he will vote with the Republicans to sustain a filibuster to stop health care reform. What will his reward be this time?

      He is not worth it. He gets what he wants, plays games with the leadership, and when they need him most, he is off with his new friends in the Republican party. It's time for the Democrats to take their chances without him, because he is not with them.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by proudconservative (October 28, 2009 8:13 pm ET)
      3 10
      pssssst, hey lefties...

      I think what media matters (for very little) meant to say was that the media should not pay any attention to Lieberman at all. I mean come on, why should harry reid actually have to have a bill written before he brings it up? Of course Lieberman and others have gotten cold feet from nothing more than 'rumors' that reid is actutally going to try to have a bill with a government controlled option. Besides, who wouldn't want this legislation? Only people concerned about the outdated concepts of individual freedom and government that doesn't oppress you!

      psssst, quiet now lefties, we wouldn't want this getting out.

      Whispering truth to/about progressives

      :>

      Report Abuse
      • Author by roundhouse (October 28, 2009 11:02 pm ET)
        6 1
        Sure bet you wish you weren't on the losing end of everything these don't you? We exposed Palin for the fraud she is and now that we're feeling the results of people powered ploitics, there's no stopping us.

        Your teabaggers were an utter failure because progressive activists and bloggers cut through your lies. Lieberman is no different. We will persist in shedding light on the big con and continue winning hearts and minds with a positive progressive agenda for a better future for America.

        Get used to it, or come up with better ideas. Either way is fine with me.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by proudconservative (October 28, 2009 11:17 pm ET)
          1 8
          whenhesitsaroundthehousehesitsaroundthehouse,

          Tsk,tsk. A little upset are we? ;(

          It's ok, I certainly accept your take on what's been happening in this country. Of course, it's not an awakening against a lefty administration that folks elected, it's more of an......affirmation by dissent and abandonment!! Yes, that's what we'll call it. Keep your chin up, I'm sure you're so right about all this little fuss about socialism/progressivism.

          In the meantime, the democrat party is just.......

          [http://chowderheadbazoo.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345282f769e2010535c59fc3970c-500wi]


          whistling past the political graveyard.

          See you on Tuesday and again in 2010. X's & O's as always. :>

          Speaking truth to/about progressives
          Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (October 28, 2009 11:43 pm ET)
            7 1
            Why would I be upset? We're turning back the tide of decades of creeping death conservative political dominance.

            Indeed it's a slow process, but we are in it for the long haul.

            I'm happy as can be watching righties being forced to wear out and dilute the meaning of terms you so loosely toss out. Terms like 'socialism' or 'marxism'. They don't mean anything anymore, they're washed up and only exposes the fact that you have no alternative ideas to compete with our progressive agenda. All you have are slurs from years long gone.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by fairliberal (October 28, 2009 8:50 pm ET)
      2 6
      Yeah, stop covering Lieberman, marginalize Fox, why not just publish the news, in print and on air directly from the WH. And now MMFA seems to be in favor of limiting the free press too. I wonder when the Obama administration will begin flogging journalists like they do in Saudi Arabia. After all he did bow to them, he must admire their ways.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by my4cents (October 28, 2009 9:22 pm ET)
        5  
        Yeah, every news network should be like Fox News.
        When Obama administration starts flogging journalists, I only pray Fox News will cover the actual flogging.
        What a patriotic network Fox News is! Let's elect Fox News for President. They stand for 'liberty', 'freedom','patriotism' all the way.
        </sarcasm>
        Report Abuse
        • Author by fairliberal (October 28, 2009 10:28 pm ET)
          4 6
          I guess you would prefer more networks like CNN that actually fact check comedy skits for the administration, they fit right in to your program. Fox on the other hand actually shows the country what organizations like acorn stand for and the types of activities they stand prepared to engage in. How dare they show the truth. It is no surprise that CNN's ratings are in the tank, while Fox is continually rising.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (October 28, 2009 11:05 pm ET)
            6 1
            I would prefer that Fox stop pumping propaganda, that's all. You can't tell me Frank Luntz isn't a right wing propagandist and you can't tell me he isn't writing the talking points for Fox.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by my4cents (October 29, 2009 9:26 am ET)
            5  
            So you are saying higher ratings mean truth? For me, ratings imply more people are watching it, not necessarily that the channel is showing the truth.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by bobklahn (October 29, 2009 9:42 am ET)
            5  
            Fox news is rising in the ratings as hey stop covering news and keep pounding out the opinions.

            Fox news really is an arm of the republican party, and their news exposes are frauds.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by mikehuck1976 (October 30, 2009 5:42 pm ET)
            3  
            "I guess you would prefer more networks like CNN that actually fact check comedy skits for the administration, they fit right in to your program." - fakeliberal

            I think fakeliberal just called her beloved Fox News a comedy skit. Seems about right to me.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by pointofview (October 28, 2009 9:59 pm ET)
        2 9
        What I find amusing is that MMFA is attacking Lieberman for what he Believes. They provide no evidence that Lieberman is lying, or that he does not really believe what he is saying. I think universal care and a public option would be a great thing for those that don't have insurance or are under insured. Having said that, you have to be a total idiot to believe that it will not cost more money, and add to the debt to do that.

        This debate is being considered in the wrong terms. There can be little argument among rational people that giving everyone insurance, and not allowing insurance companies to exclude people with pre-existing conditions Will cost more money. That should not be the question. The question should simply be is it the right thing to do? Is it worth the expense? If the answer there is yes, then lets stop all the games currently being played.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (October 28, 2009 11:08 pm ET)
          6 1
          Just read the article. Joe's lies are clearly shown to be what they are.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by pointofview (October 28, 2009 11:11 pm ET)
            1 7
            I did read it. You need to re-read it. The article clearly says this it is what Lieberman BELIEVES.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by roundhouse (October 28, 2009 11:39 pm ET)
              6  
              Okaaaaayy. Directly below the part where Joe is quoted saying, "I think that a lot of people may think that the public option is free. It's not," Mr. Lieberman said. "It's going to cost the taxpayers and people that have health insurance now, and if it doesn't, it's going to add terribly to our national debt."

              Directly below that lie, MMFA cites the actual established guidelines for similar bills:

              Bills already written with public option require its costs to be covered by premiums

              House, Senate Health Committee bills require premiums to cover costs of public plan. Although the Senate has not released the text of its compromise bill, both the House tri-committee bill and the Senate HELP Committee's bill require their public options to charge premiums sufficient to cover administrative costs as well as the cost of enrollees' benefits.

              From the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009, as introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives:

              SEC. 222. PREMIUMS AND FINANCING.

              (a) ESTABLISHMENT OF PREMIUMS. --

              (1) IN GENERAL. -- The Secretary shall establish geographically-adjusted premium rates for the public health insurance option in a manner --

              (A) that complies with the premium rules established by the Commissioner under section 113 for Exchange-participating health benefit plans; and

              (B) at a level sufficient to fully finance the costs of --

              (i) health benefits provided by the public health insurance option; and

              (ii) administrative costs related to operating the public health insurance option.




              Report Abuse
              • Author by retiredinsf (October 28, 2009 11:58 pm ET)
                1 8
                Shirley you can't be serious roundhouse. Who do you suppose pays insurance premiums? Let me answer that for you: YOU DO. Obama won't be paying for it with his "Obama's stash" as a lady from Detroit said when asked by a reporter where stimulus money comes from.

                Let me know if I need to explain this further.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by roundhouse (October 29, 2009 12:06 am ET)
                  7  
                  Golly, who pays for premiums? People who actually buy the insurance, that's who. What is so difficult to understand about that?
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by retiredinsf (October 29, 2009 9:16 am ET)
                      6
                    What? Obama doesn't have a few trillion dollars stashed away in the Oval office?

                    He's spending trillions (aka $1,000,000,000,000.00) as if he does.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by roundhouse (October 29, 2009 10:55 am ET)
                      6  
                      Whatever. Face facts, you got busted on the premiums distortion, so you're resorting to petty whining.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by retiredinsf (October 30, 2009 12:27 am ET)
                        1 4
                        Jeez. Must I explain EVERYTHING to you libbies? Whether you pay higher premiums or higher taxes, HEALTH CARE WILL COST MORE! This is Liberman’s point! If you want to split hairs over to whom you will be paying more money, go ahead.

                        BTW I didn’t vote for Liberman (Gore). But he did bring some class and integrity to the Gore ticket. Remember when Gore wanted to disallow the overseas military votes in 2000? Liberman was disgusted with Gore’s position on this.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by mikehuck1976 (October 30, 2009 4:52 pm ET)
                        3 1
                        You're wasting your time with retiredinsf. He also did not understand that when an employee lies about his production in order receive a bonus, it does not make the company an illegal enterprise.

                        Almost every company I have ever worked for that based their bonuses on production has had employees lie about their numbers in order to get a bonus and some have been busted. Retiredinsf thinks this would make each and every one of these companies that was a victim of the employee fraud a criminal enterprise. He seems to lack any real world experience to go along with his Glenn Beck-fed talking points.
                        Report Abuse
            • Author by bobklahn (October 29, 2009 9:45 am ET)
              5  
              Senators are supposed to work with facts, not beliefs. Belief is great for religion, not running a country. Or should your doctor act on what he believes, and ignore symptoms and tests?
              Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (October 28, 2009 11:40 pm ET)
          5 1
          It doesn't matter if he believes stuff that's not true. If it's not true, it's not true, and that's the point MMFA raises.

          He is saying that it will cost one group, and that's not true. No one is trying to say that providing coverage will be cost free - it's that it won't cost the people he's saying it will cost. It's pretty simple, actually. But you don't get it. Omigod - something else you don't understand!
          Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (October 28, 2009 11:45 pm ET)
            5 1
            Bingo! The truth doesn't matter because I believe otherwise. It's plain arrogant.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by teabaggers ♥ [wing]NUTS (October 29, 2009 3:04 am ET)
      4 1
      god, lieberman is such a little weasel. the democrats should have known what a fraud he was when they realized gore choosing him for VP in 2000 was such a bad choice.

      granted, he was a democrat back then, but he would have been a terrible VP and i dont think the democratic voters wanted him in the white house alongside the president... or some of them just went with it while others didnt. who knows?

      one thing i always remember my dad telling me is the fact that lieberman is jewish and american voters didnt want someone like that being a heartbeat away from the presidency. i dont necessarily agree with that, but i cant disagree with it, either.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by cnclmark (October 29, 2009 4:08 am ET)
        1 7
        When it's too good to be true it always is. I didn't vote for Lieberman or Gore although in retrospect they would have been better than what we have now. I can't think of one example of government taking over anything that made things better for anyone. Health care by government is frightening and since the Dems don't want the fact to be transparent, nor do they want to be part of the plan they vote for, it scares me to death. Ask any of the supporters is they are willing to sign on to John Fleming's HR 615. I don't think you find any takers. What does that tell you or are you just blind faith followers?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by bobklahn (October 29, 2009 9:51 am ET)
          6  
          Explain this: It works in every other industrialized country in the world. And it takes less of their national wealth. Switzerland, the most expensive National Health care system costs 12% of GDP. Ours costs 16% and is going to be 20% by 2017. IOW, the next president is going to have to figure out how to run a country with 20% of it's total economy going for health care.

          Why do you think America is so inferior we can't do as well as the best of the other industrialize countries?

          Why do you think America is so inferior we can't match the cheapest of the other industrialized countries? Japan spends 8% of GDP, and has 50% more MRI machines percapita, and 3 times as many cat scan machines.

          Why do you think America is so inferior?
          Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (October 29, 2009 11:05 am ET)
          5  
          Why don't you, cnclmark, point to some specific examples of government screwing up something it administers instead of just tossing out right wing throw away garbage lines?

          Truth is government does good work with our schools and libraries, parks and highways, fire departments and police stations. We have clean water to drink because of government, we have uncontaminated food to eat because of government. The list goes on and on and I'll continue if need be. While you use vague allusions to incompetence, I can point to concrete examples of good government all day long.

          Government is a practical necessity, not the enemy you make it out to be.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (October 29, 2009 1:05 pm ET)
          6  
          Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security retirement and disability benefits ALL made life better, much, much better, for millions of Americans, for several generations! If you can't even think of these examples, then you aren't capable of having an adult conversation on this topic. And if you aren't capable of having an adult conversation on this topic, then why should we pay any attention to anything you write?

          And the blind faith follower? That would be you - someone who apparently believed with blind faith the definitively false statement that there are no examples of the government taking over anything that made things better for Americans.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by mikehuck1976 (October 30, 2009 4:54 pm ET)
          3  
          "I can't think of one example of government taking over anything that made things better for anyone." - cncl

          Well, then you need to get out more.

          Police departments
          Fire departments
          National Parks
          FDA
          FDIC
          Interstates

          Do you need more examples?
          Report Abuse
      • Author by retiredinsf (October 29, 2009 9:11 am ET)
        1 6
        "one thing i always remember my dad telling me is the fact that lieberman is jewish and american voters didnt want someone like that being a heartbeat away from the presidency. i dont necessarily agree with that, but i cant disagree with it, either."

        Libbies try so HARD to hide their racism. Then they inadvertently step in it for the whole world to see.

        Tell us again how racist Rush is teabagger.


        Mmmmm, mmmmm, mmmmm.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by bobklahn (October 29, 2009 9:53 am ET)
          6  
          Tell us again how racist Rush is teabagger.

          He is, but that's another topic.

          If liberals are so racist, why did they nominate Lieberman, and if you are not racist why did you vote against him?

          Your dad was right about some Americans, but those Americans are on the right.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by mikehuck1976 (October 30, 2009 5:40 pm ET)
          3 1
          "Libbies try so HARD to hide their racism. Then they inadvertently step in it for the whole world to see.

          Tell us again how racist Rush is teabagger.


          Mmmmm, mmmmm, mmmmm."

          Wow. You are really willing to go as far as you must to defend Rush from being a race-baiter aren't you? I will never understand the blind devotion you have to a man who makes millions and laughs at his sycophants behind their back. But, retiredinsf, please tell us again how anytime an employee lies about their production in order to receive a bonus it makes the company they work for an illegal enterprise. That's my favorite pretezel Beck twisted you into.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by todd234 (October 29, 2009 8:11 am ET)
      4  
      I hope in the future they pass laws that will allow us to go back and look into any possible crimes against democracy such as knowingly ignoring the will of the people and punish them with a one year bid in their local correctional facility. That would be justice. In no instance should a representative vote against the will of the Majority, those are communism rules.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by joedla1117 (October 29, 2009 9:20 pm ET)
        3  
        I agree, and I honestly believe that most of those that are knowingly ignoring the will of the people are doing it for monetary gain. But what of the misinformed tea party sad sacks, that have been brainwashed. Maybe the IRS should look into this.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by phredicles (October 29, 2009 10:24 am ET)
      3 1
      I think a big reason anything Liebertoad says is reported so uncritically is that he personifies exactly the sort of "bipartisanship" the establishment press is always slapping its collective salami over, with the veneer of lip-service covering the unflagging corporate whorage.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by StHarding (October 29, 2009 1:33 pm ET)
      4 1
      Back to the pure issue of media, here is another example of how snakes get all the attention. They always have, but it is the nature of media. MM is great in showing the facts behind Lieberman's erroneous claims, but it is a bit silly to ask the media to stop covering him. News is news and Lieberman is news. The real issue for us is how to get him to cease being news by taking the power away from the snake, but that is not pure media, but a policy debate.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by joedla1117 (October 29, 2009 8:58 pm ET)
      4  
      Actually if he is against the opt-out public option, he is right. If he is against the public option that would involve all states, he is wrong. If the bill goes through with individual states being allowed to opt-out, that would make the bill very costly to the ones that do not opt-out. I hope I'm wrong, but as I have been looking for answers as to who within each state would decide on the opt-out. I have gotten the idea that the state senates would decide this. In many cases they do not represent the populous. For example, in Michigan, with a Republican controlled senate there would be very little chance of having a public option, in a state where it is needed the most.
      It is very very wrong to allow a few to take away the right of a public option away from the many people who really need it.
      Report Abuse

my.MediaMatters.org

Login  Sign Up

Push Back

Phone calls, emails and letters from the public do make a difference. Remember that to be effective you must be polite, and professional. Express your specific concerns regarding that particular news report or commentary, and indicate what you would like the media outlet to do differently in the future.