Buchanan blamed VA Tech murders on immigrant "invasion," claimed immigrants "are going berserk here"
In a May 1 syndicated column, conservative pundit and MSNBC political analyst Pat Buchanan blamed the April 16 shootings at Virginia Tech on lax U.S. immigration policies, stating that gunman Cho Seung-Hui "was among the 864,000 Koreans here as a result of the Immigration Act of 1965, which threw the nation's doors open to the greatest invasion in history, an invasion opposed by a majority of our people." In the column -- titled "The Dark Side of Diversity" -- Buchanan claimed: "Had this deranged young man who secretly hated us never come here, 32 people would [be] heading home from Blacksburg for summer vacation." He added: "What happened in Blacksburg cannot be divorced from what's been happening to America since the immigration act brought tens of millions of strangers to these shores."
Buchanan suggested that Cho's actions were not an isolated phenomenon, asserting that "in numbers higher than our native born, some [immigrants] are going berserk here." He cited only anecdotes to support this claim. A 2007 study conducted for the pro-immigration American Immigration Law Foundation by University of California, Irvine sociology professor Rubén G. Rumbaut found that "for every ethnic group, without exception, incarceration rates among young men are lowest for immigrants, even those who are the least educated and the least acculturated." His research showed that over the last three censuses for blacks, Hispanics, whites, and Asians, "[a]mong men age 18-39 (who comprise the vast majority of the prison population), the 3.5 percent incarceration rate of the native-born in 2000 was 5 times higher than the 0.7 percent incarceration rate of the foreign-born."
Buchanan wrote that, due to the passage of the Immigration Act of 1965, "[t]hirty-six million [immigrants], almost all from countries whose peoples have never fully assimilated in any Western country, now live in our midst." He later declared: "Since the 1960s, we have become alienated from one another even as millions of strangers arrive every year."
During the August 24, 2006, edition of CNN Headline News' Glenn Beck, Buchanan described illegal immigrants as a "fifth column" within the United States and claimed that immigration could make the "Southwest" become "like Kosovo is to Serbia" because the Mexican government is "pushing" its citizens into the United States as part of a "reconquista." In his August 25, 2006, syndicated column, Buchanan compared illegal immigrants to the Goths, a group of Germanic tribes who ravaged the Roman Empire in the centuries preceding the collapse of its western half. Buchanan has also stated that immigration will result in "the balkanization of America," warned that the Southwest "is going to secede from this country," and claimed that the influx of illegal immigrants into the United States is "not immigration" but "an invasion" that is "coming not only from Mexico," but "from the whole world."
In 2006, Thomas Dunne Books published Buchanan's book State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America. As Media Matters for America documented, the book contains a number of similar claims about the alleged danger of immigration:
- "This [immigration] is an invasion, the greatest invasion in history." [Page 5]
- "We are witnessing how nations perish. We are entered upon the final act of our civilization. The last scene is the deconstruction of the nations. The penultimate scene, now well underway, is the invasion unresisted." [Page 6]
- "Chicano chauvinists and Mexican agents have made clear their intent to take back through demography and culture what their ancestors lost through war." [Page 12]
- "[W]e are in the midst of a savage culture war in which traditionalist values have been losing ground for two generations." [Page 28]
From Buchanan's May 1 column:
Since the massacre of 32 students and teachers at Virginia Tech, the mainstream media have obsessed over the fact the crazed gunmen was able to buy a Glock in the state of Virginia.
Little attention has been paid to the Richmond legislators who voted to make "Hokie Nation," a Middle American campus of 26,000 kids, a gun-free zone where only the madman had a semi-automatic.
Almost no attention has been paid to the fact that Cho Seung-Hui was not an American at all, but an immigrant, an alien. Had this deranged young man who secretly hated us never come here, 32 people would heading home from Blacksburg for summer vacation.
What was Cho doing here? How did he get in?
Cho was among the 864,000 Koreans here as a result of the Immigration Act of 1965, which threw the nation's doors open to the greatest invasion in history, an invasion opposed by a majority of our people. Thirty-six million, almost all from countries whose peoples have never fully assimilated in any Western country, now live in our midst.
Cho was one of them.
[...]
What happened in Blacksburg cannot be divorced from what's been happening to America since the immigration act brought tens of millions of strangers to these shores, even as the old bonds of national community began to disintegrate and dissolve in the social revolutions of the 1960s.
[...]
Since the 1960s, we have become alienated from one another even as millions of strangers arrive every year. And as Americans no longer share the old ties of history, heritage, faith, language, tradition, culture, music, myth or morality, how can immigrants share those ties?
Many immigrants do not assimilate. Many do not wish to. They seek community in their separate subdivisions of our multicultural, multiracial, multiethnic, multilingual mammoth mall of a nation. And in numbers higher than our native born, some are going berserk here.
I did it!! I was the first one 2 post!!
Damm, I like to post first;-)
Buchanan does not realize that this was a gun law, mental health issue and has NOTHING, NOTHING at all with immigration. Unbelieveable.
I beg to differ. Using your logic that if guns were banned, he couldn’t have done this. with the same logic, if immigrants weren’t allowed in the country, he wouldn't have been able to perform this tragedy.
I’m not saying immigration should stop, hell my parents are immigrants. But I think we should be more careful whom we let in. Wouldn’t you like to know if your plumber was a mentally unstable person with violent tendencies?
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How, as an 'intellectual', do you propose to institute this for the customs agents/HLS to carry out? Are they supposed to give psychological tests to immigrants upon entry also? Are they supposed to have everybodies health records when they enter this country? Where do you start, where do you end-for a system that is already shaky at best?
Cho also came here when he was 8 years old. How would you expect the government to know an 8 year old was going to end up being mentally unstable.
How was Poppy Bush supposed to know that his first-born would grow up to be an alcoholic coke-head deserter ne'er-do-well?
if i had those answers i wouldnt be struggling to feed my family. If physical and mental health isnt taken into consideration before someone is allowed into our country we are asking for trouble. Implimenting a process like this is not something I can do.
As far as the argument that Cho was 8, your right, not every instance can be found. But that is no excuse to not even try to filter the bad out.
you are the only one talking 'banning', so please stop the lies. No, if common-sense laws like not letting people who have been commited for mental health reason just pick one up any time the idea occours to them would have stopped this. a background check would have stopped it. now if you think you might fail such a test, well you might want to condier your own choices instead of blaming others for your own short-comings.
You're presenting your mental shortcomings here on MMFA for all to see.....
We have no way of telling if a naitive-born plumber is sane. Are you proposing draconian backgrouind checks on each and every person in this country? How would we still be "The Land of the Free"??
Beanz, are you not able to read ? The poster wrote "this was a gun law/mental health issue", and you translated it into banning guns ! Are you so stupid that you can't understand that there can be gun laws that allow legal and controlled ownership of guns ?
The gun debate that was portrayed by the media was about how VA Tech had a ban on guns but it didnt help because the state allowed people to have guns. I'm only restating what I saw throught the media.
WZwriter. your right, we cant know everyone that is mentally ill. with that being said, would you just let anyone into your home, or do you make sure that you know who they are first.
Atheist, yes i can read, hence why I actually KNEW what the debates were about through various sources, not just what was regurgutated for me by MMFA or some other website.
Yes, I make sure I know who's entering my home. But how on Earth was anyone expected to know that when this kid moved here from South Korea as an eight-year-old, he'd grow up to be a killer?
BEAN,
You may have a point with what you say but the idea of bringing up immigration into the horrible acts at VT is only able to be mentioned at all if this had been say..... Tim McVeigh or name any natural born American
Oh wait, he did something horrible in Oklahoma City and do you recall that every single right-wing pundit claimed that it was foreign terrorists and were practically calling for the arrest of every 'alien' here without facts but armed only with their collective fear of people that look and think differently than themselves.
This is no different accept that it happened to be an immigrant that pulled the trigger.
As for gun ownership, if you want to go where you went and claim that we need to know every immigrants mental state before they allowed here in the US let alone to own a gun..........
Then I say that every American that wants to own a gun should go through the same process as any alien resident before entering America as people like McVeigh and any other born and bred American that has pulled a gun and shot wounded or killed a fellow American has proved that a bad mental state knows no borders or religions or nationalities!
Interesting analogy, Pat.... You know, since we (I'm guessing Pat means native american bi-lingual women) have let OTHER people VOTE, there has been an increase in terrorism in America... We must all realize the folly of voting and enact a totalitarian regime...
Some Americans, born and raised here, go berserk too.....their birth country is irrelevant to that. Buchanan is making a link where none exists.
Who are you, and what have you done with Tommy?
It's possible Buchanan never said this. It's hard to translate his columns from the original German.
Hey! That was exactly what I said when he said the media "lynched" Imus or something like that.
Why did Cho secretely hate 'us'...? No way it was because bigots like Pat spew their crap all over the country, right..?
Yeah, dam immigrants! They should take a lesson from my Polish only speaking great gramma on how to be a good american!
And Pat, that's some great christianity you are showing there, pal!
Yeah, the only thing worse than the destruction of our God-given nation by this invasion is the Mexicans and Indigenous people getting pissed off about their nation being destroyed by invasion.
Go, Pat, Go!
Sure, just go on and be sarcastic. Downplay the danger.
Pat:"Chicano chauvinists and Mexican agents have made clear their intent to take back through demography and culture what their ancestors lost through war."
Don't you people get it?!? They won't even have the decency to kill and maim us to take over! They'll just feed us Mexican food and pour our driveways and before we even know it - se habla espanol!!
Geez!! Wake up white people!!!
Is a driveway more like a Margarita or a Screwdriver? Never mind, just pour me one, I'm scared.
Pour me one, too. But I'm not scared, just parched.
Ahhh the Great American Melting Pot, yes indeed!
According to Pat they refuse to melt. Whats wrong with a nice tossed salad.
Out here in LA where I live, there is a very substantial Korean population. As soon as this shooter was identified as Korean, their community here went out of their way to denounce and condemn this shooting every which way, so as to halt any unwarranted connection that some would unfairly link them to....and they were under no obligation to do that whatsoever. They had no responsibility or part in these massacres, but just because they shared an ethnicity they felt it important. I thought it was a very classy and honorable gesture to make.
Pat is insulting immigrants from every corner of this planet with his absurd statements here, he should apologize to every one of them.
Yes! exactly! Over here in New Zealand, the media loves to purposefully ignore ethnic or religous communities when those communities criticise the actions of rogue members. Australia has a Sheik that compared some woman with less than a burqa on (essentiallY) to uncovered meat. Despite the absolute denunciation of our own national Muslim council of the comments, the national newspaper made a front page story out of pretending Muslims in NZ supported the comments. Im glad you made that point its frustrating as h3ll.
Buchannan should start his apology by voluntarily allowing himself to be deported to the country of MMFA members' choosing.
I vote for North Korea. Anyone else?
There was a point at which I thought of Pat as this misguided guy who was basically pretty much on the same planet as the rest of us. But this has me convinced that there is nothing but garden-variety xenophobia at work here.
I mean... the Koreans? The berserk Koreans?
You know if you remove the "e" from Korean you have "Koran". Very interesting....
Seriously, Buchanon is wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong about this one. Maybe I should kindly ask him to get off my side?
Geez Pat, you've been so logical lately [Iraq], and while I've always been aware of that prejudice beneath the surface that you hold for any and all not White...this article floors me.
Almost no attention has been paid to the fact that Cho Seung-Hui was not an American at all, but an immigrant, an alien. Had this deranged young man who secretly hated us never come here, 32 people would heading home from Blacksburg for summer vacation.
Cho was NOT an illegal immigrant. He was a Legal citizen. He was as much of an American as any of those born here or those that arrived on these shores legally. THIS would INCLUDE your own ancestors Pat. He belonged here. What he lacked was treatment for his mental illness
While assimilation into American culture is a positive...this was not a factor concerning the tragedy at VT.
Pat, you simply are using this tragedy to vent your bigotry.
I'm really disappointed.
We need to stick to the facts. You're correct that Cho was not an illegal immigrant (and Buchanan did not say that he was, though by throwing in the word "alien" he probably wanted to imply something sinister), but Cho was NOT a citizen. He was a resident alien -- he had a green card. He was here legally, but he wasn't a citizen.
Not that that makes a bit of difference; this could just as easily have happened (and similar things certainly have happened) had he been a native-born blonde-haired, blue-eyed son of any American family. Even one of Irish Catholic descent like Pat himself.
(Funny, it's really not so very long ago that the nativists were keen on keeping Irish Catholics out of the country...)
He isn't Irish-Catholic. He now self identifies as Scots-Irish on one side of his family. In America Scots-Irish refers to the Planters who took the native Irish-Catholics' land in Ireland. They were also Protestants. On the other side of his family he is of German-Catholic ancestry.
Val, have you caught your minimalist posting friend today? En Fuego!
Hello. What's your name?
Poor Pat. He seems to be drifting closer and closer to the state of mind his hero Ronnie Raygun was in ("makes new friends every day") during the last years of his presidency.
With his rabid anti-immigration rants, it probably won't be long before Pat moves from MSNBC to CNN so he can be do a daily spot on Lou Dobbs' show.
Nah, he'll never move to CNN or FOX. Then he would be in Olderman's crosshairs. Safe at MSNBC. There are truly some delusional people in this country, including Pat the Bigot along with the late Chao among many others.
I'm still waiting for someone to blame Anna Nicolle Smith's mother, Virgie... the blame game is getting a bit absurd, don't you think? How about just saying "a bitter, deranged person got ahold of guns and ammunition and went on a rampage... and just leave it at that.
I know Pat has a history of making statements that could be considered bigoted especially towards immigrants, but I usually dismiss Pat as a relatively harmless old geezer talker, and geezer's often amuse me. But this is an unabashed mean spirited xenophobic rant. Mental illness affects the human population regardless of ethnicity. What about all the mass shootings and spree shootings that preceded this one. Other than the shooting in the Utah, all of the other perpetrators have been our very own home grown mentally deranged people. Pat ought to be ashamed of himself.
Pat is a bigot.
to be ashamed requires a conscience. Pat sold his to the devil years ago.
I am an American-born Caucasian male. Fourteen years ago, I fell head-over-heels in love with a beautiful Korean-born woman. She and her family emigrated to America when she was four years old, and they have been U.S. citizens for over 20 years. We have been married for five years this May. We have two beautiful children. My wife has three sisters. Two of them have forged successful careers as flight attendants for major American carriers. The remaining sister has a son and a daughter, both straight-A students enrolled in a state university as engineering majors. One of them hopes to some day work for NASA.
The more I’ve grown to know and love my wife’s family, the more it makes me appreciate and love the country we call home. Every time I see my inlaws, I feel truly welcomed as a member of the family. I enjoy addressing my father and mother-in-law as “Abugee” and “Omma”. I also enjoy saying ‘hello’ and ‘goodbye’ to them in Korean, or letting them know I’ve had enough to eat by telling them, “pebelo yo”. I just consider it a nice gesture in return for them making such a constant effort to engage me with English conversation, and it always brings a smile to their face.
As you can probably surmise by now, reading this prejudicial rant by this angry, grouchy, racist, white bigot offends me in so many ways I don’t know where to begin.
I can imagine how you feel. Hopefully there hasn't been a lot of this sentiment after the shooting. Other than Pat I haven't heard anything. Pat seems to be tapping into those new PHD racist sentiments. These PHD racist have been writing articles, books and during the lecture circuit talking about how only Europeans have sucessfully assimilated into American life. They often use Blacks non-assimilation after 400 years of being in America as an illustration of this. They say this strait faced as if there was no slavery and that Blacks were not locked out side of mainstream America society. Unfortunately I here twangs of this in Pat's opinion piece. I think he's been reading some of those books.
of course I meant to say I hear.
I would offer my background as the anti your situation. ;)
See, my wife is mexican. My pure white momma thought the world and our family name would end as we know it if I were to dirty our blood with her impure culture. Took 20 years of marraige for my mom to realize all those stereotypes about mexicans were pure nonsense. Course, it didn't hurt that my bro and sis both had multiple marraiges to pure white americans that ended in failure...
On a side note you just basically described the last 5 years of my life. (My wife and inlaws are native Koreans and I'm African American.)
I was very upset after reading this. I used to pretty brush Pat to the side, but his comments are highly bigoted.
Hey, my beautiful husband is AA also. He likes old school and prefers to just be black though. He jokes that he was born a negro (so stated on his birth certificate), he was colored in grade school and then turned black in HS. You can guess his age range from this transition (50's).
I don't mine black. Negro feels a bit weird though. I'm sure I'm abit bit younger though.
Monknj80, My husband was born in 1953 and it does sound very dated. Black is as old school as he gets.
So 863,999 Koreans immigrated and did not become mass murderers; I think the odds are against Buchanan's argument.
Here's a statistic: Most mass murderers/serial killers are native-born "white" men.
Pure naked racism.
So just who in america really fully "assimilated"? Why do we have chec villages in texas still? St Paddy day parades? Octoberfest? I hear a bunch of whining about Cinco De Mayo and Kwaanza, but not a peep from this bunch of rednecks on the other stuff. Bigoted? You bet that's what Pat's rant is.
Let's not forget the Iraqi-American community in Michigan, a small group of which when walking down the sidewalks waving Iraqi flags on the day that Baghdad fell. Where did I see the helicopter footage of this? Where else? FOX NOTHING CHANNEL!!!!! And they were eating it up, splitting their screen to capture every moment of it live.
Remember the immigration protests? Fox Nothing Channel wouldn't shut up over how offended they were solely by Mexican flags being waved on American streets.
The right wing always has been and always will be the hypocrisy by which all other hypocrisies are measured.
Buchanan has always been very extreme on this issue. He's an isolationist who wants to completely close off our borders, and he wants no trade or U.S. involvement with other countries. His xenophobic rant here shouldn't surprise anyone. He's always been that way, but he only represents a very small number of Americans.
Hopefully your right RINO, and OMG I agree with RINO about something. I'll have to go home now and reflect on this. (smile)
Quick spin around 3 times counter clockwise and rub your stomach.
Something like 29-30%?
I think wee Paddie has gone beserk.
payback,juliajayne;
There once was a man named Buchanan
A white nation he was demanan'
But all he was seein
was killer Koreans
So the fires of hatred he's fannin'
Yeah, that Pat. He's just so - androgenous.
Dang, HBL, Iwas writing a limerick and posting it and then I saw yours. It's better than mine, I'd better sharpen my wits to compete with the likes of you.
I was going to write a haiku, but then I remembered - It ain't American.
yeah, and those pesky Irish sure have been slow to assimilate the superior British culture over in Ireland. I hope Pat B , Pat Robertson, Dobson, Rick Warren and a few other loonys all end up in the same rest home, what a hoot it will be to visit them and see the 20 year old Filipino aids change their diapers and spoon feed them!
You are ill informed. P.B. isn't "Irish" as we understand it in America. He's of German ancestry primarily and also Scots-Irish, not Irish Irish. Ireland itself is in a different situation to here and doesn't merit being lumped into this controversy.
And if you are implying Robertson is Irish, he claims Scottish. The others, Dobson and Warren, I don't know but I've never heard they were of Irish ancestry.
You give this site a bad name.
So, the liberals were to blame last week. Now, the immigrants are to blame. Watch out, necons: your turn is coming.
First they came for the liberals, but I wasn't a liberal. Then they came for the immigrants, but I wasn't an immigrant. Then they came for neocons!! OMG!!!!!!!
First they came for psychiatric patients and invented the gas chamber for their doctors to kill them in. When they saw it worked to kill psychiatric patients, they built them in the concentration camps. It was called the T-4 program and the perpetrators were mostly not prosecuted after the war because after all, it was only "deranged", "crazies", "lunatics" who died in the tens of thousands.
The hate speech in Virginia against people with psychiatric illness and the proposals to do away with any semblance of protections from forced drugging, confidentiality of any sort and being put on a list for voluntary treatment are scary and if anyone thinks it can't happen to them, look at the fact that there are no biological tests for mental illness, it's completely subjective and America would not be the first country to label dissidents mentally ill.
There once was a pundit named Pat
Who engaged in some pure racist chat
His focus, his dreams
Are of xenophobe schemes
You can't get no whiter than that
You are on a roll today. YOu should Publish these in the collected works of "JJ"!
Oh, so that's how it's gonna be, eh? If you're a yes fan, you'll get it...
If you're not white, get out!You're impure color will bear you outYou won't get in, that way!We're gonna build a fence and mine itwhile armed guards patrol the valleyThe immigrants must go!Ship them out in cattle carsYou need to go away!We're gonna build a fence and mine itWhile armed guards patrol the valleyChorusImmigrants really reekMexicans swim the rio and theyStand thereOne mile over you'll be there and we'll seeYouYou'll be penned up we'll be there andLaughing tooWatching you board cattle cars youll see Ill belaughing at you
This preview is for the birds...
If you're not white, get out!
You're impure color will bear you out
You won't get in, that way!
We're gonna build a fence and mine it while armed guards patrol the valley
The immigrants must go!
Ship them out in cattle cars
You need to go away!
We're gonna build a fence and mine it While armed guards patrol the valley
Chorus
Immigrants really reek
Mexicans swim the rio and they Stand there
One mile over you'll be there and we'll see You
You'll be penned up we'll be there and Laughing too
Watching you board cattle cars youll see Ill be laughing at you
I'm not completely convinced that's what Jon Anderson had in mind.
But you did a nice job with the B3 solo, Snoop.
Prog-Rock wankers.
Well, granted they're no "loverboy" but...
Even a Starship Trooper like me can see that even if not on the cutting edge, they were at least Close to the Edge...(groan) And You and I could argue about it until the Heart of the Sunrise, but I've Seen All Good People disagree when it comes to musical taste, and most opinions are worth Five Percent For Nothing. (bigger groan) Sorry about this, it's just my Mood For A Day. Somebody stop me...
Your Move...
Whether you know it or not you slurred White people.
Stop yourselves.
ok, this is going to be unpopular. buchanan is wrong about "immigrants" in the strict sense of the word. but from the same study: "foreign born mexicans had an incarceration rate of only 0.7% in 2000, more than 8 times lower than the 5.9% rate of native born males of mexican descent." as the study shows, the children of immigrants are more prone to being incarcerated.
One could easily extrapolate from those numbers that American culture breeds illegal or rebellious behavior. So much for Pat's master race.
One could also argue that illegal immigrants neccesarily keep their heads down so they draw as little attention as possible.
Or, you could argue that foreigners are the damn devil.
i'm pointing out what the study says. in fact, it's title is "the myth of immigrant criminality and the paradox of assimilation".
Yeah, my post was put up in haste. My last sentence should read, or one can argue...not, you can argue. In other words, I'm not accusing you of anything
At any rate, no need to be defensive, I'm just rolling through threads planting seeds. (Maybe you're not being defensive, hard to tell when our communication is limited to computer screens)
I suppose Buchannan is referring to his Irish descendents as they went berserk on the streets of New York. No? Does he claim to be a native American? I think not. This guy is a bigot. Just as long as his immigrant family is here, there just should not be other immigrants here now. Especially if they are not white. Remember he said that Hispanics make him uncomfortable? I am sick of this guy ranting and raving on MSNBC, and I turn it off as soon as he gets on. It is true, he really should be on CNN with Lou Dobbs.
His (and my) Irish ancestors kicked down my Italian ancestors when they got here around the beginning of the last century. Then my Italian-American cousins (yo yo Tancredo!!) promptly kicked down the next guys: the Latinos, the Asians, and in a pinch those old standbys, the Jews and the blacks.
It's a story as American as French fries and pizza...
It's a story as American as French fries and pizza...
So true, brother Val, so true. But it's a story that many of us in America try to sweep under the rug and pretend it never happened. It's why Gore Vidal coined the term "United States of Amnesia". We love to be super-patriotic, but rarely do we want to admit that we're flawed and our history has left deleterious effects on many who are still disadvantaged today. Luckily we have folks like Howard Zinn who continues refreshing our memory about this country's history, reminding us of the good AND the bad.
In 1993 author Toni Morrison wrote an article in Time magazine about immigration and the the assimilation process of how some become accepted as "American" in the mainstream. Funny how this was written in 1993 and it still holds up today.
http://www.time.com/time/community/morrisonessay.html
I just read a pretty good book on that very subject called How the Irish Became White. Very interesting read.
Because you're Irish, you should know the reality of life here in America better than you're post indicates.
Again, he self identifies as Scots-Irish, not Irish Irish and he's half German.
OMG! OH...MAH...GAWD! I just read this thread and we very nearly agree that Pat is pukey! Nearly everyone on the Right and everyone on the Left and the Tweeners too!
Is this a first????
Now let's all join hands, sing "kumbaya," and roast marshmallows.
Pat, if you're reading this, you managed to offend all of us. I don't think I could offend the spectrum if I tried.
Well with that said I have to disagree with you all. Although I dont care for Pat, there is some logic in what he says. Any time you let more and more immigrants into our country, you will let good AND bad people in. There needs to be standards and some level of assimulation required.
We must be able to take care of ourselves before we can begin to try to take care of others.
Hey, Patty B.!
Very good, Beanz. By the same logic, we should also stop letting everyone have children, since, after all, "any time you let" people give birth to more children in "our country, you will" create "good AND bad people... There needs [sic] to be standards and some level of" eugenics "required".
You're flippin' brilliant.
There are many who read these posts who don't post FYI.
Hey, Pat, What are you doing on MSNBC? Why not go over to Fox and work tag-team with your soulmate/evil clone Bill O'Reilly? Billy-boy sang that same sorry tune last week. YAWn....
Cho came here when he was 7 years old, for crying out loud, and his sister not only excelled here but was an honor student who attended Princeton on scholarship. It's not like the boy had a choice. Pat can say some stupid things sometimes, but he's really out on a limb on this one. It's idiotic.
What happened at Virginia Tech is a national tragedy. I'm sure we all agree on that. Which was Cho, an illegal immigrant or an American citizen??? If he is here legally then I have to agree with an earlier post and say that the mental health system failed him. Also the school. After the slaughter we find out that this kids was waving red flags, as to his mental status. Some authorities at the school were apparently made aware of this young man and the fact that he definitely had some issues. He needed professional tratment. Did he get it??? Was he in any kind of program where he got medication and counseling?? Did someone at the school see to it that he received this treatment?? I render this opinion with the thought that he was a US citizen. Were he definitely an illeagal my opinion would be totally different. One other thing I would like to add is that Virginia's gun laws need to be changed. A deep back ground check is in order. No one should be allowed to walk into a store and purchase a weapon without a waiting period and a complete back ground check. Oh yes, if Cho were an illeagal there is no way he should have been able to buy a gun or ammo. Barber32
I'm a little confused. Is it just the fact that they're here in America that makes immigrants go berserk or is it because they're foreigners? Because most of the world is not American (which I know might blow Pat's mind) and I don't think the rest of the world is going berserk, but I could be wrong seeing as how I live in my little lefty bubble. Thank goodness Pat is here to set us straight.
And I like his mention of "native born" Americans. I wonder which tribe Pat is from. Is "Iamamoron" a tribe?
No need to invent a silly tribal name for him: Pat seems to me to be a new incarnation of a Know Nothing, a member of a mid-nineteenth century American nativist political movement. This was back when "Native American" referred to a person of European descent born in America. Pat would have gotten along splendidly with them... except, of course, that at the time they were busy trying to keep his Irish, Scots Irish, and Catholic ancestors out of America. It's such a shame that Pat can't appreciate history's ironic sense of humor.
Well that's Pat... what else would you expect. Otherwise he's good on the war, blasts neocons, and won't genuflect to AIPAC.
This is absolutely disgusting. Buchanan writes: “Had this deranged young man who secretly hated us never come here, 32 people would heading home from Blacksburg for summer vacation.” Cho came to the U.S. when he was 8 years old. Is Buchanan suggesting Cho started planning the Virginia Tech Massacre then? The Cho family was hard-working and placed a high value on education. Cho was a legal permanent U.S. resident who excelled in school. Cho’s sister is a Princeton grad currently working with the State Department. [link to www.washingtonpost.com] ; [link to www.washingtonpost.com] /> The Cho family are good people, the type of immigrants we want in this country. But their son was very, very sick. Maybe they should have realized how sick he was, but every other U.S. agency seems to have dropped the ball, too.
None of you, well some of you, don't get it at all....
It has nothing to do with the physical makeup of immigrants....it has everything to do w/finding an excuse to limit the amount of immigration into the U.S.
At least Buchannan is like the old southern racist/bigot of days gone by...he wears his hatred of immigrants/minorities on his sleeve for everybody to see...so what's the problem....he is & has been this way for yrs.
JINXER, all discrimination is about something else.
"Blacks are inherently violent and intellectually inferior" equals "they're trying to take our white women and emasculate us." Or "women are too emotional to be in the workplace" equals "they're gonna take our jobs and make us do housework." And so forth and so forth.
Actually the origin of racism against blacks in America stems from the fact that they were slaves. The common misconception that racism came before slavery is incorrect. Africans were not enslaved because they were black they were enslaved because much of africa was tribal, ie not untied, they were simply easier to capture than the Arabic, chinese or even other europeans. Add the fact that they were captured by Africans and sold to Arabic and white traders and it becomes even more convienient. Every color and culture have been slaveowners and most have been slaves at one point. Whites have enslaved whites, asians enslaved asians, africans enslaved africans, etc. The result of slavery is that the ruling class develops a superiority complex to the enslaved. This is what happened in the case of African slavery and not coincidentally ever other example of slavery in history, ie, whites have felt supeiority over whites, asians over asians, africans over africans, etc. So as you see Africans were enslaved due to the availibility and ease of wich they were enslaved and due to the opressor/slave menatlity developed the views of Africans being less inteligent more savage, etc. The racist views are actually an affect of slavery not a cause of it.
It is rare that I find someonbe further to the right than I am on immigration but Buchanon does come off as extreme. However at least one of his points are viable - Many immigrants do not assimilate. Many do not wish to.
700,000 english deficient students in the Texas school system are a testament to this. The need for bilingual teachers is so great that the houston independent school district has been forced to hold job fairs in Mexico. Many qualified english only teachers are losing their job oppurtunities in order to cater to people who do not wish to learn the predominate language of the land they are in. This does not fit with what Teddy Roosevelt said on the influx of German immigrants in the early 1900's
In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also , isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." Theodore Roosevelt 1907
This does not seem to be incompatible with some of the actions of the protestors we've seen lately, flying the mexican flag over the american flag, flying the US flag upside down etc. Add this to the fact that these people are calling for citizenship for people who broke the law to get here and it seems even more opposite to Teddy's views. While I don't agree with Buchanon on many statements he makes, he is 100% right that the subculture of illegals that do not wish to assimilate is vulcanizing and dividing our country and will only lead to problems in the future.
Sebastion Shaw, and how, pray tell, will many of these immigrants learn English without bilingual teachers? Even if these kids' parents have learned English themselves (which, by the way, is not a simple thing to do as an adult. American English's structure is a hodge-podge of many different languages so there are a lot of exceptions to the grammar rules), they may very likely not speak it well enough to teach it to their kids properly.
Immigrants should learn English. It's the height of arrogance to go to a foreign country making no attempt to learn that country's language (hint hint to all Americans travelling abroad).
To properly assimillate, you should 1) learn the language, 2) learn basic civics, and 3) honor the country's values. You can do all of this and still retain aspects of your native culture--as any celebrator of St. Patrick's Day can attest.
It's the height of arrogance to go to a foreign country making no attempt to learn that country's language - YOU
So we're in agreement. On the subject of where oh where they'll learn english, I submit to you this idea....they can learn english in mexico. I'm semi-fluent in spanish and therefore have limited my traveling abroad to south america. My point is that only recently have we bent over backwards to placate a surge of foreign nationals (many of which are illegal). Other countries as you've pointed out do not do this for americans. Think of the cost to the taxpayers to print millions of legal papers, ballots, etc. to placate non-english illegals many of whom are paid under the table and do not pay income tax. One of the reasons these illegals tend to not learn english is that the fear of deportation keeps them from taking public english courses. The solution is legal immigration. We do need comprehensive reform but any suggestion that we should allow people who disregarded our laws to come here to become citizens is counterproductive.
You wrote “only recently have we bent over backwards to placate a surge of foreign nationals (many of which are illegal). Other countries as you've pointed out do not do this for americans.” -Not only did I not say this, I disagree with your statement completely. In most other countries, the people speak more than one language. They are taught English from childhood. You also wrote: “On the subject of where oh where they'll learn english, I submit to you this idea....they can learn english in mexico.” -I agree that more adults should learn English before they come here. Of course, they’re probably coming here because of crippling poverty at home. If their home country had the resources for English instruction, they likely wouldn’t be coming here to begin with. FYI, not all illegals are Mexican, and about 45% of those here illegally now came here legally (but overstayed visas, for example). [link to www.npr.org] /> You also refer to the “700,000 english deficient students in the Texas school system” and that “the need for bilingual teachers is so great.” Do you also fault these children for not “learn[ing] English in mexico?” It’s not like they had any choice in the matter. Why shouldn’t they learn in schools?
Immigrants should learn English. It's the height of arrogance to go to a foreign country making no attempt to learn that country's language (hint hint to all Americans travelling abroad).
So how are you saying that other countries are bending over backward for us here? Answer you're not, nice ploy. Secondly to your answer as to why they shouldn't be learning english in our schools is simple, because many of their parents are here illegally and are not contributing to the subsidizng of the public school system. On that I have to get back to work so just try to remeber what you have and have not said in future discourse.
S. Shaw
"because many of their parents are here illegally and are not contributing to the subsidizng of the public school system"
How do US citizens contribute to the public school system in your neck of the woods SS? Is there a magical unicorn that prances up to your house to pick up the monthly payment for your local public school and only "real" americans can see him?
Your statement is false. If you're working under a fake SS# your still paying taxes. If your living here and you own a house or rent your paying for property taxes. If you purchase an item your contributing to a local sales taxes.
I said, under the table, as in day workers, who get paid in cash. I never implied they had false ssn (even though many of them do). And the fact that many illegals usually live in one house hurts the property tax.
Sebastian, by "vulcanizing". did you mean "Balkanizing"? I think that's what Mexophobes call what they are trying to do to California. When you learned English, did they teach you that "English " and "American" are words that have to be capitalized? If I were lecturing on language and assimilation, I would make sure that I knew what the hell I was talking about. Otherwise, I'd just sound like an idiot. Plus, I'm sick of hearing about how immigrants don't share "American values". What do you think we are, savages? IIf by "values" you mean we don't listen to country music, kick our kids out of the house when they turn 18, party on "Spring Break" , or consume everything Sanjaya until the next little trend comes up, you're right. Immigrants have traditional values closer to the "ideal" you falsely claim. Stop the madness already.
Wow, congrats on taking away from the debate to criticaze my use of capital letters. I'm well aware of my horrible typing. To that end I'll also admit that I accidentally wrote vulcanization instead of balkanization. So I guess that's it right? Any other spelling or grammatical problems in my HUNDREDS of posts? BTW, I know the word hundreds doesn't always have to be capitalized, I did it for emphasis. As for the term "mexiphobe" I find this accusation HILLARIOUS (again emphasis). I'm from south Texas, almost fluent in spanish and don't have any problems with hispanics persay, just those who come over here ilegally, you know, the way my ancestors DIDN'T, just so you know I'm Irish (legally immigrated ancestors), German (again, legal), and (here's the kicker) american indian (cherokee), so I huess I have a right to be mad when people tresspass into America. PS- Please reply to this post and let me know my grammar and spelling score.
Greetings from Blacksburg, Pat.
Our governor said it best: we have nothing but loathing for those who seek to highjack our tragedy, our pain, and our suffering to forward their own agenda.
Shame on you, Sir.
long.brian3861 is the best.
Unusually, there appears to be complete consensus as to the disappointing nature of Bucanans editorial.
Unfortunately, I speculate there is at least 20% of Americans who align with Mr. Bucanans view.
I remember hearing about an invasion, oops I mean immigration, about 400 years ago where a bunch of people came here and exterminated the native peoples of this land. I would probably guess correctly that your ancestors were some of those 'immigrants'. Did they get permission to come here, Pat?