CNN's Louis corrects Dobbs: "the un-American part was ... to shout people down, to stop the conversation is un-American"
August 10, 2009 11:49 pm ET
From the August 10 edition of CNN's Lou Dobbs Tonight:
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Is there a single grade-school student in this country who doesn't get the concept that our government moves forward on the rails of free debate over the issues?
You're a great American, Lou.
The problem, of course, is that this isn't what's happening at these Town Hall meetings. Private health insurance companies aren't exactly "have nots", but the people who protest in their name seem to think they're crusading on behalf of some oppressed minority. Lewis stood his ground against Dobbs, but I wish he had pointed out that the problem here isn't shouting down one's opposition; it's the fact that the protesters are busy disrupting the very type of forum that would allow them a voice. These protests are obviously not designed to achieve their supposed aims.
Luigi was trumped again. He going to develop paranoia if people don't start to listen and believe everything he has to say.
Luigi the Victim. Poor baby
Do two wrongs make a right in ConservativeLand?
Second, if you have proof that "the left" used tactics like those, was it an isolated incident, or was it promoted on every left wing talk show on radio and TV. If it was, then you've made a fair comparison.
If not, you're making another false equivalency.
Any time dialogue between elected officials and their constituents is stifled, it's un-American. Please provide links to prove your charges or go away.
When were conservative speakers assaulted?
It's also worth noting that the left was protesting a war of choice that has gone a long way toward bankrupting the nation not only of its wealth and prestige, but its moral standing in the world. The tea-baggers are protesting a domestic program they don't understand, and one that would actually help people. Just a little bit different.
Also, she is not a democratically elected leader trying to get the opinions, and or questions of her constituents. Same for Pat. I don't see the 2 situations as the same. That being said, I do think, even if someone is giving a talk that I've gone to, and I disagree with them, I still think the opposition should be respectful of said speaker (even if it were Coulter).
True story. Campaign, 2004. Bush came to Raleigh, NC for an event. They advertised it, you were able to get tickets. I got tickets. Showed up, and was asked to sign the "pledge" to vote for Bush if I were going to go into the campaign event. I told them no, I had not made up my mind yet, because the campaign was still going on. I was not allowed to attend the event, and they also found out I was a registered democrat, and asked me, "Are we going to have a problem here, and should I call Secret Service?" Bear in mind, I was polite, not belligerant at all, and was questioning WHY I couldn't go into the event, since Bush was my President as well.
Don't forget the "free speech zones" for people who wanted to protest outside of the events Bush held, which were normally a mile away, or more, from anywhere the President would be.
Imagine, and I hate to use this argument, but based on what we've seen here lately, imagine if Congressional democrats set up "free speech zones" outside and away from their town hall meetings and banished anyone who was being loud to them? Can you imagine the false outrage and anger the right would have then? Imagine if you had a democratic Congressional memeber ban people from their events because they weren't a democrat. The outrage would be incredible, and in that case (the banning of people because they didn't have a D by their name) I would understand it.
Well, that outrage would not be false. That's the point.
The surest way to send Dobbs out to pasture is for everyone on the left to take a pass on Loony Lou's show. Republicans with any future plans in politics will follow when they realize that it's just not worth it to be associated with the loon. Then Dobbs will be left with a few fringers and his own idiocy. Give that scenario a couple of months to fester and CNN will have no choice but to act.
When the MSM is cheerleading for a right wing war, and some lefties show up to present an opposing viewto the MSM/ White House (even if they're admittedly kinda fringy), they're un-American.
When the MSM is promoting all sorts of right wing propaganda regarding health care, and some hypnotized wingnuts show up to prevent an opposing viewpoint to that BS, and try to silence the Dems now in power from addressing that propaganda, they're grass roots activists.
How could we have been so blind? All this time we were under the mistaken assumption that "American" referred to a citizen of the United States, when actually "American" means a conservative ideologue living in a fantasy world of red white and blue ribbons, unstoppable armies, and indisputable righteousness.
Americans elected the democrats to fix healthcare. The G.O.P. will never be serious about taking down the powerful insurance lobby.
If people stop listening to media bias focusing on the cost of health reform and remember that Obama was leading McCain by a 52 -45 margin in the final polls in 2008 and that the people opposing reform are mostly McCain people. THEY WANT OBAMA TO FAIL!
Obama and the democrats are about to make health reform reality for all Americans.
THE RIGHT WING AND THEIR MOBS CAN SHOUT AND SCREAM ALL THEY WANT BUT THERE IS NOT A DAMN THING THEY CAN DO ABOUT IT.
I see this same mistake being made every day by parents. A kid repeatedly does something inappropriate and the parent repeatedly tries to reason with the kid. Eventually, the kid becomes an expert at manipulation and has the parent on the ropes for the rest of their days, never accepting responsibility for their actions.
It's time for the parent (President Obama) to put the kid (the GOP) into the Timeout corner until they've learned their lesson.
Stop trying to reason with someone who's not able to learn or accept responsibility.
The Republicans are like spoiled brats so used to getting their way that they're now throwing a fit.
Stop playing their game of trying to rerun the election. The majority of American voted for Obama and for his promise of health care reform. A very small percentage of Americans are standing in the way, thinking if they throw a big enough fit they'll get their way. Show them how wrong they are.
Forget them, forget the fringers, ignore the special interests, start enforcing party discipline and get this thing done. Now.
We've waited too long to turn back.
The Republicans are not going to vote on any Healthcare legislation put forth by the Democrats. So just move forward without them. Ram it down their throats like they have done to the dems previously. Who is getting hurt by this are the people. All the politicians have health insurance and don't see double digit increases in costs every year. I am tied of paying through the nose for my insurance and getting less for more every year. We need reform and soon.
3
"First, provide a link to your claim."
"Second, if you have proof that "the left" used tactics like those, was it an isolated incident, or was it promoted on every left wing talk show on radio and TV. If it was, then you've made a fair comparison."
OK, here you go.
First: Here is a link to the claim.
A Study in Contrast: Comparing Bush and Obama on protests
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.misc/browse_thread/thread/8226c7b7e173a6e9/e040c7b219cc2887?lnk=raot
"(Bush) White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer on Anti-war protesters:"
'I think the president welcomes the fact that we are a democracy and people in the United States, unlike Iraq, are free to protest and to make their case known,'
"White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs on health care protests:"
'I hope people will take a jaundiced eye to what is clearly the
Astroturf nature of grass-roots lobbying,' said (Obama) White House press secretary Robert Gibbs during a morning off-camera session in his office with reporters."
"'This is manufactured anger,' he said."
"Well, you can say one thing for the Obama administration: they have brought genuine change to the way the White House addresses dissent."
Second: The Anti War Protests were angry sustained and organized by various organizations on the left and favorably repoted by CNN et. al.
CNN Coverage of Anti War Protests in Washington DC and Bush White House
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/12/10/sproject.irq.protest/index.html
Code Pink call to organized protest
http://www.codepink4peace.org/article.php?id=511
CNN story:Sharpton Sheehan Visit Anti War Camp
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/28/crawford.sharpton/index.html
CNN's Cafferty Laments Lack of Anti-War Protesters 'Tearing up College Campuses'
By Brad Wilmouth http://newsbusters.org/node/13324
June 9, 2007 - 00:15 ET
On Friday's The Situation Room, CNN's Jack Cafferty used his regular "Cafferty File" segment to attack President Bush for not reappointing Joint Chiefs Chairman Peter Pace out of fear of a tough confirmation hearing, tagging it a "gutless" decision. At about 5:08 p.m., as Cafferty set up his regular question of the hour about what it would take to end the war in Iraq, he lashed out at the absence of greater outrage from the American people, and suggested that American troops have "died for nothing" as he seemed to wish for the kind of protests of the Vietnam War era, which included "students tearing up college campuses," to happen again. Cafferty: "When it was going this poorly in Vietnam, Americans were in the streets demanding to be heard. Students were tearing up college campuses in an effort to head off being sent away to die for nothing. But not this time -- 3,503 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq, and nobody does anything. ... It's no wonder the Bush White House gets away
with this stuff."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/july-
dec05/protests_9-26.html
"KWAME HOLMAN: And for the first time in ten years, demonstrators were granted a permit to stage their protest directly in front of the White House. President Bush was not in Washington this weekend, but that did not stop the crowd from making the president the target of their anger."
"DEMONSTRATORS: Hey, Bush, what do you say? How many kids have you killed today?"
2003, Hillary Clinton those who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CzteDucRHo
So to summarize:
There was a sustained protest against the Bush programs and policies that was very well organized by various left leaning groups and favorably reported upon by the MSM and encouraged by Democratic Party Leaders. This was totally acceptable at that time and for that purpose by Democrats, the left and the MSM.
Now it is no longer "patriotic" but "unpatriotic".
Nancy Pelosi:
"These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views — but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades."
Hypocrisy stinks.