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Eric Boehlert
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Rampage Nation: The press no longer cares about epic gun violence

March 17, 2009 10:05 am ET

Last week, two breaking news events competed for attention from the national news media, and particularly from the 24-hour cable television outlets.

In one, disgraced financier Bernard Madoff, who was arrested months ago for defrauding investors out of billion of dollars, appeared before a judge in New York and pleaded guilty. The judge revoked Madoff's bail, and he was sent to jail to await his June sentencing.

In the other, a deranged 28-year-old, Michael McLendon, armed with a pair of military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines taped together, went on a killing spree in southern Alabama. It began when McLendon shot and killed his mother and set her house on fire (with her inside) and ended when he killed himself two hours later. In between, McLendon killed family members sitting on the porch of his uncle's house. He killed a young mother and her child, who lived next door. He killed his great-aunt, then a random pedestrian and a woman coming out of a gas station, and opened fire on a hardware store, killing another man. The massacre represented the deadliest shooting spree in the state's history.

Which event was more newsworthy and compelling? Madoff going through the formality of pleading guilty to a crime that was uncovered in December? Or a madman terrorizing towns in Alabama? And specifically, which one do you think television news outlets, which gravitate toward compelling images, would embrace? The wild, chaotic scenes following the shooting spree in Alabama, or the Madoff story, where cameras were not even allowed inside the courtroom and Madoff himself appeared in public view for less than 10 seconds during his perp walk outside the courthouse?

The answer is that the Madoff story received far and away more media coverage, especially television attention. According to a search of TVEyes.com, the white-collar story grabbed four times as many on-air mentions last week from the all-news channels as the Alabama story.

Killing sprees, especially the ones that have erupted since the Virginia Tech massacre of 2007, just don't hold journalists' attention like they used to.

Even more telling was the way the press avoided addressing the issue of gun control in connection with the Alabama rampage. There was a virtual media ban on the topic last week. And that's become the media's trademark pattern when covering the mass murders that stain the country -- they're treated as though they're isolated incidents and as though there is no larger public policy issue that ties them together. The press has pretty much embraced the old NRA mantra: Guns don't kill people. People do.

Indeed, the press now covers shooting sprees the way it covers killer tornadoes: They're one-day stories, they're acts of nature, and all people can do is try to stay out of the way.

Although, as the Alabama massacre suggested, the press seems to have lost interest in the topic in recent years, I suspect most people are aware that gun violence remains an American epidemic, and one that has expanded well beyond urban areas. Nearly 30,000 Americans die each year from guns. (More than 1 million have died since 1960.) Another 70,000 are wounded annually. And gunshot wounds cripple our health-care system under the strain of nearly $2 billion in hospital costs each year.

Obviously, in a country where approximately 80 people die each day from guns,* the press can't, and doesn't, cover every killing. It doesn't even try. But for years, there had been a general newsroom understanding that because of the unique circumstances surrounding killing sprees, where madmen loaded up with assault weapons and ammunition and set out to kill -- to execute -- often random and always innocent people, those events represented blockbuster stories. And that those stories also represented a large enough news hook that related topics, such as gun control, could be introduced into the coverage. Not in an activist way, but as an obvious topic of discussion and exploration.

But no longer. For much of the media, the killing sprees are what they are and nothing more. In fact, as the massacres seem to increase in frequency -- Crandon, Wisconsin; Kirkwood, Missouri; Arvada, Colorado -- the press gives them less attention and sets aside almost no time and space for introspection. It seems gun advocates have cowed the press corps.

Here's an example. The Alabama killings erupted in the late afternoon on March 10, and the gruesome story was too late to make the network newscasts. That evening, ABC's Nightline opened its program at 11:30 Eastern Time with a brief report about the breaking massacre news, a report that lasted less than 90 seconds. The next evening, Nightline did not return to Alabama for a follow-up on the massacre story, so its 90-second report represented the entirety of its coverage. And that means that during those two nights of programming, Nightline devoted far more time to stories about breeding show dogs, Amazon.com's founder, Michelle Obama's magazine-cover appearances, tips for selling your home, recent financial losses suffered by famous billionaires, the breakup of Bristol Palin and her fiancé, and the misery of Zimbabwe.

All of those stories received vastly more time and attention than the historic Alabama bloodbath.

Or consider the story that broke on the morning of June 25, 2008, when Wesley Higdon, angry about a workplace dispute over safety goggles and cell-phone use at the Atlantis Plastics plant where he worked in Henderson, Kentucky, retrieved a semiautomatic handgun from his car, killed his supervisor outside the plant, and then went inside and fatally shot employees in the break room. Six died, including Higdon, who shot himself. Another person was injured.

In the 36 hours after the shooting, the story was mentioned just two dozen times on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News combined. Incredibly, the workplace massacre did not even make the newscasts that night on CBS and NBC. The two networks did not consider the Kentucky rampage killing, which left six dead, to be worthy of mention on the evening news.

National newspapers weren't much more interested: The New York Times gave the story just 400 words; The Washington Post, 200. The Los Angeles Times squeezed in a 130-word report.

Two quick points here. First, I'm not suggesting that all the recent U.S. killing sprees featured guns that were obtained illegally. Or that with tighter gun-control laws, killing sprees would be eliminated. They would not. But the fact that guns are so easily available today, legally and illegally, ought to represent a newsworthy topic for the press when madmen snap and go on rampages.

Second, I understand the argument that if more politicians (read: Democrats) aggressively lobbied for gun control, the way they did in the 1990s, then the issue would receive more press attention. But that argument assumes that because politicians have publicly pulled back on the issue, it's not up to the media to initiate the debate. And to that, I say, "Baloney." Did Woodward and Bernstein wait around for Democrats to make a big deal about the Watergate break-in before they started investigating? Of course not, because the press is supposed to act independently of political parties. Besides, even if some Democrats have been scared off the topic, there's no shortage of gun-control advocates who would be willing to address the issue in the press. So quite clearly, it's the press that's walked away from the topic in recent years.

And the withdrawal has been dramatic. When the Columbine killers unleashed their fury inside a suburban Denver high school in April 1999, killing 15 and wounding more than 20, the horror show set off all kinds of media-driven debates about gun control. Ten years later, the press couldn't care less about the issue. Checking through TVEyes and the Nexis database, in the first 36 hours of coverage following the Alabama shooting, I could not find a single newspaper or television report about the massacre that even mentioned "gun control." For the press, the issue does not exist. Period.

But look at how The Wall Street Journal dealt with the equally chilling rampage that unfolded last week at a German high school, which left 16 people dead:

A shooting rampage that began in a southern German school on Wednesday and left 16 dead is likely to stoke fresh debate in Europe about gun control and public security.

In the very first sentence, the newspaper announced the massacre was sure to prompt a fresh debate about gun control in Germany, which only made sense, right? (How did the killer get the gun? Did he take advantage of a loophole? Etc.) But the AK-47-fueled massacre in Alabama? Not a chance. The issue of gun control went unmentioned in the American press.

Meanwhile, when the press has bothered to address the issue in recent years, it's often been from a completely skewed perspective. For instance, looking back at CNN's Virginia Tech coverage from April 2007, one of the few on-air debates about gun control that I could find featured a gun-control advocate as well as a gun-rights advocate. The two didn't really debate whether laws should be tightened to make it more difficult for people to get guns; they debated whether laws should be loosened so that more people could carry guns in places like college campuses.

After a mentally ill student, Seung-Hui Cho, had made a mockery of Virginia's gun laws by falsifying his gun-store background check and killing 32 people with the guns he purchased illegally, CNN presented a debate in which an activist arguing that the United States needed to relax its gun-control laws was given equal time to an activist who urged that the country tighten its gun laws. The pro-gun advocate, who represented a radical minority in America, was put on the same footing as the gun-control advocate, whose views reflected the clear plurality of Americans, who have consistently called for stricter gun laws. That's how CNN chose to frame the debate in the immediate wake of the Virginia Tech massacre.

Time did the same thing. Two days after the April 16, 2007, rampage, Time.com published a puff piece about how gun advocates saw the massacre as a political opening -- "a call to arms" -- to get existing gun laws relaxed and overturned -- about how the NRA felt it had political momentum coming out of the mass executions at Virginia Tech.

And more recently, ABC News also hit that angle. For an April 2008 report commemorating the mass killing on the Virginia Tech campus, ABC chose to shine a spotlight on activists who, in the wake of the campus massacre, were trying to loosen U.S. gun laws, who wanted college students to be able to carry weapons to class.

Left unreported in that kind of gun coverage is the fact that relaxing gun laws in the United States represents a radical, out-there idea that's supported by just a tiny fraction of Americans. Not even gun owners in America want to make the laws less restrictive. (Just 15 percent back the idea.)

But at least in those instances, the topic of gun control was actually addressed. I remember watching the endless Virginia Tech coverage in 2007 and being struck by the nearly uniform lack of debate about the issue. I wasn't alone. At CBS News' online forum, The Public Eye, Brian Montopoli wrote on April 25, 2007:

In order to delve into a big issue, the media usually needs what's known as a "hook" -- a news event that focuses people's attention on larger questions. The tragedy at Virginia Tech is such an event.

There were reasons not to take up larger issues and assign blame in the immediate wake of the shootings -- those first few days needed to be about how people were dealing with the horror of what had taken place. But some time has now passed, and I'm hard pressed to think of a better time for the media to focus on a huge issue that isn't going away anytime soon.

The issue, obviously, has not gone away. It's only intensified. But the national media's interest in addressing it has largely vanished.

Aside from the rampages that I've already referenced above, here are the details surrounding just 10 of the more than two dozen killing sprees that have unfolded in the past two years, which have transformed America into a Rampage Nation. They're stories the press pays increasingly little attention to, stories that, from the media's perspective, don't add up to any kind of larger, newsworthy trend:

February 12, 2007

With a belt full of shotgun shells under his trench coat, a backpack of ammunition slung over his shoulder, and two guns at the ready, 18-year-old Sulejmen Talovic stepped out of his car at the crowded Trolley Square shopping mall in Salt Lake City and immediately began shooting shoppers. Talovic was killed by police. Six dead, four wounded.

October 7, 2007

After arguing with his ex-girlfriend at a late-night party in the small town of Crandon, Wisconsin, off-duty sheriff's deputy Tyler Peterson went to his truck, got his police-style AR-15 rifle, forced his way back into the apartment, and fired about 30 rounds. He was later killed in a shootout with police. Seven dead, one wounded.

December 5, 2007

A 19-year-old gunman, Robert Hawkins, arrived at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Nebraska, just before 2 p.m. with a stolen AK-47-style semiautomatic weapon concealed under his sweatshirt and began randomly shooting holiday shoppers inside the Von Maur department store. Then he shot himself. Nine dead, five wounded.

December 9, 2007

Armed with an assault rifle, two handguns, a backpack filled with bullet clips for 1,000 rounds, and smoke bombs, Matthew Murray opened fire on the Youth With a Mission training center in Arvada, Colorado. Hours later, wearing black combat boots and SWAT-style black cargo pants, Murray fatally shot parishioners outside the New Life megachurch in Colorado Springs, and then stormed inside, where he was shot by a security guard. Murray then killed himself. Five dead, five wounded.

February 7, 2008

Feuding with town officials in Kirkwood, Missouri, contractor Charles "Cookie" Thornton barged into a council meeting and killed two policemen and three town officials. Thornton was killed by police. Six dead, two wounded.

February 14, 2008

Dressed in black, graduate student Steven Kazmierczak, who had battled mental illness much of his adult life, carried three guns with him (a Glock 9 mm, a Sig Sauer .380, and a Hi-Point .380) when he walked onto the stage at Cole Hall Room 100 at Northern Illinois University at the conclusion of Intro to Ocean Science and started showering the lecture hall with bullets as students scrambled for the exits. Kazmierczak then killed himself. Six dead, 18 wounded.

September 2, 2008

Isaac Zamora, described by his mother as "extremely mentally ill," stole a gun and a pickup truck and went on a killing spree in Washington's Skagit County, randomly shooting people, including a sheriff's deputy. Six dead, four wounded.

December 24, 2008

Dressed as Santa Claus, Bruce Jeffrey Pardo knocked on the door of his ex-wife's parents' house, then quickly opened fire on the holiday party inside. A young girl was among the first Pardo targeted, with a gunshot to her face from his semiautomatic handgun. After torching the home, Pardo drove to his brother's house and killed himself. Ten dead, three wounded.

February 14, 2009

Frank Garcia, who had been denied a permit to carry a concealed gun three times, is accused of going on a killing rampage outside of Rochester, New York, on Valentine's Day. Garcia is accused of using a .40-caliber Glock pistol to kill a former co-worker and a passer-by in the parking lot of the hospital where Garcia used to work, and then driving to a nearby town, where he held a couple hostage in their home before killing them execution-style as their children watched. Four dead, one wounded.

March 15, 2009

A Miami man, Guillermo Lopez, barged into a birthday party for his estranged wife's boyfriend. An argument erupted. Lopez cornered some partygoers and opened fire, killing four people, including his estranged wife and her boyfriend. Lopez drove to his home, set his pickup truck and house on fire, and killed himself. Five dead.

*Correction: I previously wrote that this figure does not include gun-related suicides. That assertion was incorrect, and I regret the error.
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    • Author by worrierking (March 17, 2009 10:14 am ET)
        1

      The most bizarre thing is that there is only one part of our Constitution that is considered inviolate and that's the Second Amendment.

      We can explain away infringements of freedom of assembly, of speech, of the press, but the right to bear arms is absolute.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Cannonball (March 17, 2009 1:08 pm ET)
          1

        To make matters more complicated: "its the lobbyists, stupid!"  [not you Worrier, just an expression] 

        The second amendment is inviolate (as interpreted by the average gun nut) because gun nuts, and their reps in the NRA lobby corp, are active, loud, and pay dues so that Congress will fight any guin limits.  Get rid of the lobbysists and reform campaign funding and you will eventually be able to limit guns.  Any system that can be manipulated to get a Glock into a teenager's hands is f**ked!

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Cannonball (March 17, 2009 1:08 pm ET)
             

          gun limits, not guin limits

          Report Abuse
        • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 2:14 pm ET)
             

          "Get rid of the lobbyists . . . "

          Yeah--that whole "redress of grievances" thing is so outdated.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (March 17, 2009 8:33 pm ET)
              1

            You should know. That's why rightwingers want to privatize every aspect of government. Redressing grievances to an open and accountable government is a constitutional right, while redressing you grievances with fat, arrogant, non-transparent corporations is harassment. 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 9:05 pm ET)
                 

              Where did you get the idea that I'm a "rightwinger"?  Certainly not from any defense on my part of "privatiz(ing) every aspect of government"--something I oppose.  Because I advocate for gun rights?  Because I reject the idea of a government monopoly on force? 

              By your standards, John Locke was a "rightwinger," I suppose.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by roundhouse (March 18, 2009 11:18 am ET)
                  1

                Maybe it was your use of the term communist worker's paradise. Stop pretending you're not conservative. You can pretend to be a Libertarian all you want, but it's obvious you're simply too ashamed to call yourself Republican.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 18, 2009 11:24 am ET)
                     

                  Hey--it's Ayers himself who calls himself a communist.  Don't like it?  Take it up with him.

                  Actually, I call myself a "libertarian" (small "l")--the Libertarian Party itself lost me when it nominated Bob Barr.

                  Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (March 17, 2009 1:46 pm ET)
          1

        I love the 2nd amendment groupies. Always puffed up with their tough-guy talk about arming themselves against a corrupt government.

        Then, once in a while, somebody like Bill Ayers gets fed up and actually executes a little mayhem, and these same rugged individuals are soiling their skirts as they call for his head (and anybody who ever knew him)

        OT- Happy St Paddy's day, Worrierking (& everybody else)

        This ones for you!

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 2:18 pm ET)
             

          Well Colonel,

          Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the "little mayhem" for which Ayers is responsible was committed with an eye toward turning the U.S. into a communist "worker's paradise."

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (March 17, 2009 3:10 pm ET)
               

            Interesting theory.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 3:12 pm ET)
              1

            Gee, evidently factose-intolerant gun show trash is the soup du jour.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 3:22 pm ET)
                 

              Ah--"reasoned discourse," citizen disarmament advocate style.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (March 17, 2009 4:01 pm ET)
                  1

                I think you waived your right to the sarcastic "reasoned discourse" response at the moment you typed "communist worker's paradise."

                Report Abuse
                • Author by worrierking (March 17, 2009 4:18 pm ET)
                    1

                  Now you've done it. You gave our secret away Colonel. Now Kurt knows this place is dominated by "the statist crowd".

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (March 17, 2009 7:34 pm ET)
                      1

                    That's quite a Mission Statement 45 Superman's got--

                    The intent of Armed and Safe is to argue for gun rights...and in so doing declare themselves enemies of the very ideals upon which this nation was founded.

                    That's just nutty.

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 18, 2009 5:53 pm ET)
                       

                    By the way, worrierking, I forgot to thank you for the link to my blog--very gracious of you.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 19, 2009 5:19 pm ET)
                         

                      It's always nice to see what gun show trash is up to and the psychotic scum vote is "thinking".

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 19, 2009 5:49 pm ET)
                           

                        Maybe if you read enough gun rights advocacy blogs, you'll learn something (not likely, in your case, but miracles do happen).

                        The one I most highly recommend, though, isn't my own--check out War on Guns--it might just put a thought in that pretty little head of yours.

                        Report Abuse
                • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 4:21 pm ET)
                     

                  And there you'd be wrong, Colonel.  I don't waive my rights.  Too many great people sacrificed too much to ensure I had those rights for me to go waiving them.

                  I sure as hell didn't waive my right to say my piece about "reasoned discourse," simply by bringing up Ayers' communist leanings (which he freely acknowledges).

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (March 17, 2009 7:29 pm ET)
                      1

                    You're right, hoffy, you didn't literally waive any right to mock others when you made your ridiculous "commie paradise" remark. I should have said you wasted any chance at being taken seriously.

                    If you're still not getting it; You have the right to call others arguments unreasonable, but  you won't look as silly doing it if you haven't made idiotic remarks immediately beforehand.

                    Report Abuse
                • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 5:10 pm ET)
                     

                  The dominance of the statist mindset was pretty apparent long before I joined the discussion.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 9:51 pm ET)
                      1

                    In other words, ya haven't got a case or a clue and you're still baffled by the whole ass/elbow thing.

                    Thanks for clearin' that up, little fella.

                    Report Abuse
        • Author by worrierking (March 17, 2009 2:30 pm ET)
             

          Happy St. P's Day to you too Colonel. Thanks for the link.

          That's my favorite Christmas and St. Patrick's Day tune.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (March 17, 2009 8:43 pm ET)
             

          "Then, once in a while, somebody like Bill Ayers gets fed up and actually executes a little mayhem, and these same rugged individuals are soiling their skirts as they call for his head (and anybody who ever knew him)"

          And then you have "patriots" like James Adkisson, who executes liberals in broad daylight, in a church, in TN, because those liberals were trying to turn the U.S into a communist, "worker's paradise." And guys like Hofmann here pretend their savage anti-governent, liberals are the great Satan rhetoric shares no responsibility for the rampage.

          You're pathetic Hofmann.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 9:10 pm ET)
               

            And then you have "patriots" like James Adkisson, who executes liberals in broad daylight, in a church, in TN, because those liberals were trying to turn the U.S into a communist, "worker's paradise."

            Hmm--never heard that that's what the churchgoers were trying to do--unlike Ayers, who came out and said he was fighting for a communist revolution in the U.S.

            If you could draw some convncing parallel between me and Adkisson, I'd be very interested in seeing it, because I have no idea what that parallel could be.


            Report Abuse
            • Author by roundhouse (March 18, 2009 11:21 am ET)
                 

              That's the point. The Unitarians were just being liberal Christians. It was Adkisson, fueled by eliminationist rhetoric of the sort you've been spouting, who considered them dangerous. That's your parallel.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 18, 2009 11:26 am ET)
                   

                What "eliminationist rhetoric" have I been "spouting"?

                Report Abuse
                • Author by roundhouse (March 18, 2009 1:17 pm ET)
                     

                  Lord have mercy, you're dense.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 18, 2009 2:02 pm ET)
                       

                    In other words--you've got nuthin'.


                    Thank you for playing.

                    Report Abuse
        • Author by Tbone Slickens (March 18, 2009 9:38 am ET)
             

          Then, once in a while, somebody like Bill Ayers gets fed up and actually executes a little mayhem, and these same rugged individuals are soiling their skirts as they call for his head (and anybody who ever knew him)

          So you support a nutjob that "executes a little mayhem"?  I'm betting you don't hold that view of the Columbine kids? 

          How about this.  When these nutjobs "commit a little mayhem", why not let us skirt soilers handle it the way it should be handled? 

          I get the feeling you'd be soiling your bloomers over that.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (March 18, 2009 11:21 am ET)
               

            So you support a nutjob that "executes a little mayhem"? (Tbone Slickens)

            Where did you get that idea? I 'll assume everything after the standard introductory strawman is just babbling as well.Nice effort, though.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Tbone Slickens (March 18, 2009 11:05 pm ET)
                 

              OK...maybe I read it wrong. 

               The "Ayers gets fed up and actually executes a little mayhem" statement seems to be in support...

              I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...just this once!  :)

              Report Abuse
      • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 2:11 pm ET)
           

        You are doubtless correct that there are some gun rights advocates who are willing (or even eager) to accept infringements of other rights, but to claim that such an attitude is universal among the gun rights advocacy community is to lie.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 3:18 pm ET)
             

          Well, Herr Hoffmann, I'm just have to defer to your expertise and take your word on the whole lying thing, little fella.

          I love the smell of nuked nra nitwit in the afternoon.  It smells, well, pretty much like gun show trash always does.

          Always a pleasure.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 3:28 pm ET)
               

            Actually, I'm not a big fan of the NRA--well, not of its current leadership, anyway.  Back when it was a no-hold-barred, no compromise gun rights advocacy group, I had a good deal more respect for it.


            Anyway--would it be asking too much for an actual attempt to refute my arguments, if you find them lacking, or are the peurile attempts at insults the best you can manage?

            Report Abuse
            • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 10:01 pm ET)
                 

              Ah, so you're a gow, guy, eh, little fella? The nra is too tame for your sorry, simple butt. Gee, that's a shame. Must be rough.

              I hate to keep confusin' ya with the facts, little fella, but psychotic gun show slop ain't argument. It's just psychotic gun show slop. There's nothing to refute.

              Go bone up on your brain-dead bs, little fella. On the off chance that ya can find the plate, I'll be happy to put it in the upper deck for ya.

              Always a pleasure.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 18, 2009 12:00 pm ET)
                   

                Ah, so you're a gow, guy, eh, little fella?

                What, pray tell, is a "gow, guy"?


                Report Abuse
                • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 18, 2009 12:29 pm ET)
                     

                  Clearly, the scope of your cluelessness is infinite, little fella.

                  Let me know when ya come up with an actual argument and I'll be happy to put it in the upper deck with the rest of your psychotic slop, little fella.

                  Always a pleasure.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 19, 2009 11:36 am ET)
                       

                    I take it, then, that you don't know what a "gow, guy" is, either--that it's just something you pulled out of your . . . head.

                    Thanks for playing.

                    Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (March 17, 2009 9:20 pm ET)
             

          Who claimed universality, a mere one percent is disgusting enough.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 18, 2009 12:05 pm ET)
               

            Who claimed universality, a mere one percent is disgusting enough.

            I see--so are the other 99% to be held responsible for that one percent?  How would that be different from blaming all adherents of Islam for terrorism, or all young, black and hispanic men for inner city crime?

            Report Abuse
            • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 18, 2009 12:33 pm ET)
                 

              I see--so are the other 99% to be held responsible for that one percent?  How would that be different from blaming all adherents of Islam for terrorism, or all young, black and hispanic men for inner city crime?

              Nah, more like stickin' the general public with the tab for police protection from the criminal element.

              Nice try, little fella. Get yourself a case and a clue.

              Report Abuse
      • Author by carlileb5935 (March 17, 2009 11:23 pm ET)
           

        Getting back to this MMFA topic about the media, if Bristol Palin somehow went nuts and went on an assault rifle shooting spree, the media would immediately start screaming about if the Octomom was going to do the same thing !

        It's just rank stupidity on their part.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by IRONY 101 (March 17, 2009 10:28 am ET)
         

      The media don't want to touch this lest they be accused of being a part of the liberal MSM.

      Allow me to repeat my often-told Rush Limbaug anecdote. One day I heard Limbaugh say that liberals like it when tragedies such as the Columbine massacre occur...that we're happy when killing sprees like that happen because it gives us an opportunity to argue against gun control. Gleeful over the violent deaths of innocent teenagers...? Yep, that's what Rush has some people believing. It doesn't surprise me that the cowardly media back off.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by nerzog (March 17, 2009 1:47 pm ET)
           

        See, that's my biggest beef with the BlimpMan.  He loves to project his own pathological thinking onto Democrats and Liberals... and the nitwits in his audience actually believe all that crap.

        No wonder the country is so polarized.... that, in a nutshell, will be Blimpy's legacy.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (March 17, 2009 10:39 am ET)
         

      S'pose if one of the scapegoat population is a future multiple gun killer, it might get some attention. Unfortunatly the attention would be on the population group, I'd guess. Guns don't kill people, people you don't like kill people.

      Farp! 

      Report Abuse
    • Author by truthseeker77 (March 17, 2009 10:48 am ET)
         
      What a difference between media critics Howard Kurtz and Eric Boehlert. While the uncritical Kurtz simply repeats what the pundits are saying, Boehlert focuses on what they SHOULD be saying. Unfortunately, useless people are rewarded in our society. I bet you Kurtz enjoys a much bigger salary than Boehlert, much like Arod makes more than a cardiologist.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (March 17, 2009 11:01 am ET)
         

       -- in a country where approximately 80 people die each day from guns (that doesn't include gun-related suicides) -- Boehlert

      This is flat out wrong...from the link provided by Boehlert...fully 56% of the daily firearm deaths are suicide...6% are from accidents or legal police action...38% are homicides.

      Boehlert's statement could be a simple mistake...or it could be an intentional FOX-style misrepresentation of the actual facts. The motive matters little to me...but his statement flat out contradicts his source.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (March 17, 2009 11:26 am ET)
           

        Putting aside anyone motives (including your own) you appear to be correct.  I'm sure howver that Mister Boelhert will issue a correction or clarification (you know - like Keith Olbermann does) as opposed to making blind, whiny denials or claims or being taken "out of context." (You know - like every conservative commentator does.) 

        No one is perfect and that includes you and me.  So at least give the man a chance to correct the article before impugning his motives.  (It's likely a simple typo - maybe it was meant to have said "That figure includes suicides" in order to clarify the point?  You know... for the benfit of anyone who might questions his motives in writing about this?

        It happens dude.  So take a deep breath.  Relax.  There's no conspiracy, I promise.

        [/snark]

        And good job investigating it, BTW.  It IS important to call out this stuff.  Just be careful questioning someone's motives.  But it was most likely an error.  After all , the argument is no less complelling if gun related suicides ARE included.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by wesley (March 17, 2009 11:32 am ET)
             

           -- Just be careful questioning someone's motives. -- eddie

          I clearly stated that it could be a "simple mistake" and assigned no motive to Boehlert.

          Thanks for the compliment but I was not doing any investigation...I was just reading the article and following the links he provided...calmly, composed and breathing deep.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by jamesB (March 17, 2009 11:34 am ET)
               

            but you questioned a liberal's motives, and there is never a basis for that.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Victor Colorado (March 17, 2009 11:42 am ET)
                 

              Yeah, "it could have been intentional FOX-style misrepresentation of the actual facts." Let's compare Boehlert's typo to Fox "way beyond the pale in manipulating the news" News.

              Report Abuse
            • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (March 17, 2009 11:53 am ET)
                 

              but you questioned a liberal's motives, and there is never a basis for that.

              And another bouncing baby straw child is brought into the world. You must be so proud...

              Report Abuse
            • Author by NiceguyEddie (March 17, 2009 12:39 pm ET)
                 

              Hey, do you mind? The adults are having a discussion here. 

              Report Abuse
            • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 10:04 pm ET)
                 

              Hey, just 'cause you can't pull it off doesn't make it theoretically impossible, little fella.

              Keep strokin'.  You won't get there but it'll keep ya occupied and outta trouble.

              Report Abuse
          • Author by NiceguyEddie (March 17, 2009 12:38 pm ET)
               

            Yeah, I was being a bit snakry.  I'll admit it.  (I think I did, right?)  I do however still ahve a problem with this:

            ...it could be an intentional FOX-style misrepresentation of the actual facts. The motive matters little to me...

            With double-speak like this, you could get a JOB at Fox.  You can't imply that someone's motives are for ill, and then think you can take the curse off it by saying 'it doesn't matter' to you.  You made a clear implication there.  And being one of the more conservative posters here, and one that has taken many critical stances of MMFA in the past... well... there's nothing WRONG with that, but I don't think I'm going out on a limb in guessing what YOUR MOTIVES are.

            You made a legitimate point.  And Boehlert clearly got that one bit wrong.  (Although I don't think it weakens any of the arguments either way.)  But you DID imply, rather stongly, the potential for wrong-doing.  That was quite clear, and not obsfucated by the fact that you posed it like a pseudo-question (much as FOX often does.)

            "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." ~IDK, but it was someone wise.

            I'm not saying that Boelhert was/is "stupid" (in this case careless, at worst) but the spirit of the quote still applies.  (I do my best to apply it to conservatives, by I admit that I often come up short.)  Aside from this one thing it remains an insightful, thought-provoking critique.  And that one thing doesn't change that.

            Personally I am hopeful that the item is corrected.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by juliajayne (March 17, 2009 12:52 pm ET)
                 

              There is a correction issued at the end of the piece now. 

              Report Abuse
              • Author by NiceguyEddie (March 17, 2009 1:27 pm ET)
                   

                Good on him!

                Report Abuse
              • Author by oscar the grouch (March 17, 2009 8:18 pm ET)
                   

                That should be, "there is kind of a correction issued at the end of the piece now." Boehlert does not refer to Wesley's stats, just covers by saying suicides are included.  When that stat is rolled in along with police/accident stats, 30,000 per year becomes less than 12,000 (still too high, but less that 1/3 of highway deaths, which we seem to accept). How many of those homicides are committed by people that are violating current laws?

                Report Abuse
      • Author by Victor Colorado (March 17, 2009 11:27 am ET)
           

        Yes, the 80-per-day figure does include suicides. But if you don't care about the "motive" behind this inaccuracy, why propose two theories?

        Report Abuse
      • Author by mr. l (March 17, 2009 11:58 am ET)
           

        Yeah- if you just get rid of the n't, it would be factual.  I don't know why Boehlert would even want to qualify suicides as something other than what it is- gun related deaths.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by oscar the grouch (March 17, 2009 8:20 pm ET)
             

          Because a large % of those suicides would occur even if firearms under consideration for banning were not available.  If one is bent on "checking out", there are myiad ways of making that happen, besides guns.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by Tbone Slickens (March 17, 2009 12:03 pm ET)
           

        Boehlert's statement could be a simple mistake...or it could be an intentional FOX-style misrepresentation of the actual facts.

        I'll bet the latter...

        Notice Boehlert never focuses on the actual KILLER and the root of HIS problems, no, it's just the politically motivated and oportunistic shot at guns and gun control lobby. 

        Typical left wing tactic.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by mr. l (March 17, 2009 12:14 pm ET)
             

          I agree!  Boehlert CONSTANTLY lies, distorts, and makes stuff up!  He never sources anything and never has anything relavent to say.  Oh, wait... I meant Tbone instead of Boehlert!

          Report Abuse
        • Author by vitality (March 17, 2009 12:26 pm ET)
             

          actually the "root of HIS problems" would be exclusively considered "liberal".  try again.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by Victor Colorado (March 17, 2009 12:41 pm ET)
             

          Not sure what you're going on about here, but the fact that about half of gun-related deaths are suicides does not in any way diminish calls for stricter gun control.  What it diminishes is the faulty claim of arming the potential victim.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by wookie (March 17, 2009 2:56 pm ET)
               

            In fact since most of these spree shooters either kill themselves or get killed by police more armed people wouldn't necessarily deter them.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 6:27 pm ET)
               

             . . . but the fact that about half of gun-related deaths are suicides does not in any way diminish calls for stricter gun control.

            Care to explain how Japan, with citizen disarmament laws so draconian that any attempt to implement them here would be met with a bloody revolution, has a much higher suicide rate than the U.S.?

            Report Abuse
            • Author by eweston8542983 (March 17, 2009 6:42 pm ET)
                 

              How bout you prove that there is a relationship.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 6:57 pm ET)
                   

                What relationship am I to prove?  Victor Colorado asserted that suicides committed with guns constitute a valid argument for restrictive gun laws.  I pointed out that a weakness of that argument lies in the confluence of Japan's insanely restrictive gun laws and high suicide rate.

                If there's a relationship that needs proving here, I would think it's whatever relationship supposedly connects suicide and "lax" gun laws.

                Report Abuse
            • Author by neon desert (March 17, 2009 6:48 pm ET)
                 

              It's a well-known fact that it's all the despondent JRA members, feminized without their rifles, driving up the Japanese suicide rates.  Fortunately, our society allows for men plagued with inadequacy to to reaffirm their masculinity with firearms.  Ergo, gun ownership leads to fewer suicides.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 7:03 pm ET)
                   

                It's a well-known fact that it's all the despondent JRA members, feminized without their rifles, driving up the Japanese suicide rates.  Fortunately, our society allows for men plagued with inadequacy to to reaffirm their masculinity with firearms.

                "Plagued with inadequacy"?  I suppose I am, in a way.  Being paraplegic and confined to a wheelchair, I cannot effectively fight a potential assailant, or even run away, without a defensive firearm.

                If you're repeating the citizen disarmament advocates' favorite line about guns serving as compensation for the inadequacy of gun owners' penises, I suppose you're correct about that, too.  My penis, sadly is woefully inadequate for defending my family, my life, my home, and my freedom. 

                If you, in contrast, are endowed with a member so formidable as to be useful in a mortal fight, I bow to your astounding virility.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 7:26 pm ET)
                   

                It's a well-known fact that it's all the despondent JRA members, feminized without their rifles, driving up the Japanese suicide rates.  Fortunately, our society allows for men plagued with inadequacy to to reaffirm their masculinity with firearms.  Ergo, gun ownership leads to fewer suicides.

                Yeah, those Samurai and their Bushido Code are real wimps, herr hoffmann.

                Listen and learn, little factually-challenged fella - Saipan, Iwo Jima, Okinawa

                Go find yourselves some WWII Vets while ya still can, mention those locations for openers, tell 'em what "feminized" wimps those guys were and see what kind of reaction ya get.

                Now, go take Grassley's advice, bow deeply, confess your sins, go in the next room and do the honorable thing for the first time in your pathetic life and put yourself out of our misery.

                Best of luck in the next life, little fella.

                Dismissed.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Craig (March 17, 2009 7:55 pm ET)
                     

                  I think you missed Neon's meaning. "Fortunately, our society allows for men plagued with inadequacy to to reaffirm their masculinity with firearms" just about made me day.

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 18, 2009 12:07 pm ET)
                     

                  Um--you're responding to the wrong person, genius.

                  You certainly do provide a lot of entertainment--thanks!

                  Report Abuse
            • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 7:16 pm ET)
                 

              Care to explain how Japan, with citizen disarmament laws so draconian that any attempt to implement them here would be met with a bloody revolution, has a much higher suicide rate than the U.S.?

              Ya mean besides the Bushido Code. It's too bad you bushleaguers don't follow Grassley's lead, take a deep dow, confess your sins and put yourselves out of our misery.

              It would be the first noble act of your lives and in all honesty and after the last eight years, the least ya could do.

              How many with guns, grasshopper? That's what I thought.

              Always a pleasure.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 18, 2009 6:09 pm ET)
                   

                How many with guns, grasshopper? That's what I thought.

                If, by that, you mean "how many of Japan's suicides are committed with guns?" the answer is, obviously, very few.  To help overcome your problem of being more than a little slow on the uptake, allow me to explain it to you: the fact that a very small percentage of suicides in Japan are committed with guns is the point--it's compelling evidence that restrictive gun laws pose no obstacle to suicide.

                Don't thank me--I'm glad I could help.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 19, 2009 5:28 pm ET)
                     

                  Nice try, little ignorant gun show trash fella, but the next point you make will be your first so there's nothin' to miss.

                  Evidently I'm goin' too fast for your ignorant ass, so I'll slow it down and ask ya again.

                  How many US Suicides by people with access to guns are committed by other means, little factually-challenged fella?

                  Dismissed.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 19, 2009 5:37 pm ET)
                       

                    How many US Suicides by people with access to guns are committed by other means, little factually-challenged fella?

                    What the hell difference does that make, since it's well established that with or without access to guns, someone who wants to commit suicide can do so.

                    Jwcoop takes another swing, and the result is yet another miss.

                    Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (March 17, 2009 12:46 pm ET)
             

          Wha...?  That doesn't make any sense.

          I thought focusing on the "killer's [own personal] problems" was something that conservative criticised liberlas for doing?  WTF?  Are you saying that the killer's motives somehow excuse him?  Yeah, seriously, WTF?

          What's more, how do you simultaneously attack BOTH guns AND the gun control lobby?  How do you take a "politically motivated and oportunistic shot" at BOTH sides of an issue?

          And where did he criticise either?  It was a critique of the MEDIA, and how the cover GUN VIOLENCE.  And it would seem that the MEDIA is also guilty of leaving out details of the killer's "problems."  (I'm a Hokie myself, and I was very sympathetic to Seung-Hui Cho once I learned a little more about the man - he never had a chance that guy.  Screwed from birth.)  But that has nothing to do with the issues that YOU say he's taking a shot at.  (Even though he doesn't.)

          WTF?

          Report Abuse
        • Author by wookie (March 17, 2009 1:26 pm ET)
             

          The killers problems are less of an issue if he isn't armed. Isn't that why we went into Iraq?

          Report Abuse
        • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 3:36 pm ET)
             

          I'll bet the latter...

          And you'll lose. Again. Still. Repeatedly. Continually.

          Notice Boehlert never focuses on the actual KILLER and the root of HIS problems, no, it's just the politically motivated and oportunistic shot at guns and gun control lobby. Typical left wing tactic.

          In other words, ya got bupkis. Thanks for clearin' that up, little fella.

          Typical wingnut nonsense.

          As for opportunities to take shots at gun nut nonsense, you loons make sure there's never any shortage of them. You're very thoughtful that way.

          Like McVeigh and a zillion others, the killer was loser gun show trash who went off the rails and killed a slew of innocent people with a gun or guns.

          I don't give a damn what his motives are any more than I give a damn about the motives of someone determined to get and use a nuke.

          His motives don't mean gop slop. Innocent people are dead because nra trash went off the rails and I'll wager the police report says they weren't killed with an AC/DC CD or a slingshot.

          As for suicides, people don't need guns to commit suicide. People with guns just find it a lot easier to do so when they've got a gun.

          Feel free to bombard me with nra nonsense about how many gun owners kill themselves with poison.

          That's what I thought.

          Take your gun nut nonsense back to freeperville, little fella.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 17, 2009 6:15 pm ET)
               

            Like McVeigh and a zillion others, the killer was loser gun show trash who went off the rails and killed a slew of innocent people with a gun or guns.

            Hey, genius--McVeigh didn't kill anyone "with a gun or guns."

            Thank you for playing.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 7:31 pm ET)
                 

              "Hey, genius--McVeigh didn't kill anyone "with a gun or guns."

              Not that time, little fella. He had a pistol on the seat when they pulled his sorry gun show trash, nra nitwit butt over, little fella.

              Now take your autographed copy of the turner diaries and stuff it up your sorry aryan nations butt, little fella. 

              Always a pleasure.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 18, 2009 12:11 pm ET)
                   

                Not that time, little fella. He had a pistol on the seat when they pulled his sorry gun show trash, nra nitwit butt over, little fella.

                Let me make sure I have this straight--because he had a gun when he was pulled over, but hadn't shot anyone with it, he "killed a slew of innocent people with a gun or guns"?

                McVeigh was a murdering, terrorist thug, but there's no connection between him and "gun violence."

                Report Abuse
                • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 19, 2009 6:03 pm ET)
                     

                  Well, you're half right, little factually-challenged fella.  That's a step up for the lunatic-fringe likes of you.

                  McVeigh was a murdering terrorist thug who also happened to make his living on the gun show trash circuit and found the nra too tame for his liking just like you.

                  You two were made for each other. Feel free to join him in the gun show trash afterlife, little fella. Hurry on now. Times a wastin'

                  Dismissed.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 19, 2009 6:47 pm ET)
                       

                    So are you admitting yet that you were utterly clueless (again) when you sais that McVeigh "killed a slew of innocent people with a gun or guns"?

                    That's a step up for you--I'm proud of you.

                    Report Abuse
    • Author by shaggles (March 17, 2009 11:28 am ET)
         

      That was crazy when gun advocates were arguing for loosening gun laws after Virginia Tech but I've heard that kind of crap from gun nuts for years.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 3:44 pm ET)
           

        Yeah, that gun show trash would have been the first to sell the VT killer a gun or ten at a gun show, too. With no questions asked.

        It's like Archie Bunker's editorial claiming the best way to stop skyjacking is to arm all the passengers.

        That was nuts 40 years ago.

        Ya gotta love that gun show trash "logic".  I love it when they claim the second amendment gives them a free and unfettered right to weapons grade plutonium.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by vitality (March 17, 2009 11:57 am ET)
         

      There's also the massive flood of guns from the United States back to Mexico where they are used by organized crime families on both sides of the border.

      Here in the South we see the outrageous attempts to allow citizens to carry around holsters fully packed.  Great idea.  Why not put a sign on your forehead exclaiming, "Be just a little bit more careful when you rob ME at gunpoint".

      Of course it's the fear factor that comes into play.  I find little counter arguments to those in the media who seem to narrowly define the issue as one of defense against spree-killings.  Ironically, it's the very gun violence itself that seemingly justifies further percieved gun necessity. 

      Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (March 17, 2009 1:25 pm ET)
           

        I can be synmpathetic to both sides.  If a few nearby students at Va-Tech (for example) had guns, some lives may have been saved, assuming they knew how to USE them.  And, of course, it also could have been much worse.  I also know someone, a friend of mine, who is only alive today because he shot a home invader dead, just as the man leveled his own gun at my friend.  Now... you can say that better gun-control laws may have prevent the whole situation from happeneing, but we both know that my LICENSED, LAW-ABIDING friend's gun would be taken away before the criminal's gun was, if it ever was.  (If the goal of the law was to limit or reduce the amount of actual gun ownership.)

        I do support better laws - and a national database would help out law-enforcement immensely.  And you're absolutely right: It IS a fear response.  Fear, however, CAN also sometimes be practical.

        I also (somewhat pessimistically) do believe that violence in inherent in our nature.  Not everyone IS violent, of course, but  HUMANS, IN GENERAL are.  If there were no guns, there would be cross-bows (which were actually outlawed by the pope! that never really worked out, did it?) Take away Bows, and we'll be back to swords.  No swords? Clubs then.  (I know, it sounds absurd, but he HAVE been killing each other since long before the inventition of gunpowder.)

        I don't know.  It's just complicated I guess.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by vitality (March 17, 2009 2:09 pm ET)
             

          I positively and unequivocally support gun rights for homeowners.  that's called taking care of your own.

          outside of this, steps must be taken to curb the accessibility of guns, the incredible lobbyist and pseudo-populist power of the NRA, and the current lack of sound, sane measures to accomodate a rational discussion of "appropriate" weapons of defense.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by NiceguyEddie (March 18, 2009 10:35 am ET)
               

            Agreed.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by historygeek001 (March 18, 2009 2:17 pm ET)
               

            I support gun rights, but not unlimited access to guns; for example, no civilian needs an assault rifle.  No civilian needs an automatic weapon of any sort.  The fact is that the Second Amendment references "A well regulated militia;" regulations to gun ownership are therefore expressly permitted (I won't even try to address the fact that most gun nuts aren't anything like a militia).  There absolutely should be laws about who can own guns and registering the guns.

            Report Abuse
    • Author by caphillprof3329 (March 17, 2009 12:11 pm ET)
         

      The gun lobby seems to have the same umph as the Israel lobby.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by snoopy (March 17, 2009 12:35 pm ET)
         

      If the issue makes the right look bad rest assured it will be under reported. Just like the post I linked to several days back about a right wing nazi millionaire who had all the components of a dirty bomb in his basement and notes showing intent to use it. A dirty bomb would have made the trade towers pale in comparison yet the media gave it little to no attention. The right wingnuts should really be proud of what they've done to american journalism.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by kbalderson1680 (March 17, 2009 4:56 pm ET)
           

        must be that "ultra right leaning media" we hear about all of the time...

        Do you live on this planet or do you think that any news anchor who does not change his/her name to Marx and celebrate Red October is a raging conservative.

        Wow.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by snoopy (March 17, 2009 5:46 pm ET)
             

          Of course I live here. I'm not so sure you do though. Nice strawman too.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 8:03 pm ET)
             

          Feel free to cough up just what news anchor has changed his or her name to Marx and celebrates Red October, little factose-intolerant/got bupkis fella.

          Knock yourself out, nitwit. Again.

          Always a pleasure.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by vitality (March 17, 2009 12:37 pm ET)
         

      a little humor...

      http://www.theonion.com/content/video/manufacturer_recalls_hollow_point

      Report Abuse
    • Author by vitality (March 17, 2009 12:38 pm ET)
         

      again....

      http://www.theonion.com/content/video/manufacturer_recalls_hollow_point

      Report Abuse
    • Author by AndyDufrain (March 17, 2009 1:54 pm ET)
         

      March 17th, 2009

      Raytown, MO - Four people, two children and two adults shot in a Raytown home by an unknown suspect.

      http://www.kansascity.com/637/story/1090286.html

      The story ran on midday news stations here in Kansas City between the St Patricks day parade and Grassley's AIG 'suicide' comment.

      No more emphisis shown on this story than the cooking segment showing us great crockpot 'depression' dishes...

      Report Abuse
    • Author by dj50bmg1746 (March 17, 2009 2:05 pm ET)
         

      Concerning the Mexican cartel violence:

      There has been a slew of stories in the media recently about Mexican cartels being armed with American weapons, even AG Holder has gotten in on the act.  The thrust of these stories are basically an effort to create the perception that a new "assault weapon" ban is required to help Mexico get a handle threats posed by the cartels. 

      Once you read the stories, however, it becomes clear the weapons under discussion are not available on the open market in US gun shops.  They talk about crates of full-auto AK-47'S and other full-auto weapons, grenades, RPG's, and explosives traveling from US gun stores and gun shows to Mexico.

      These are not weapons readily available to the US civilian market.  Yet, many media members put their ignorance of firearms on full display when they try to conflate those weapons with so-called "assault-weapons", ie semiautomatic guns being sold here in the states such as the AR-15, which is extremely popular among sportsmen ...... and, of course, rarely used in violent crimes.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by worrierking (March 17, 2009 2:31 pm ET)
           

        Sportsmen?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by dj50bmg1746 (March 17, 2009 3:15 pm ET)
             

          Yes, sportsmen.  The AR-15 platform is extensively used in competition shooting, as well as hunting things like predators and varmits, and very popular at the range.

          In fact, the AR-15 it the top-selling centerfire rifle in the United States.  And, again, very rarely used by criminals.

          ooooh, scary black rifles!

          Report Abuse
          • Author by worrierking (March 17, 2009 3:54 pm ET)
               

            How is hunting predators and varmits a sport?

            I was under the impression that sport meant a pretty even haned chance of either side winning.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by jamesB (March 17, 2009 4:03 pm ET)
                 

              either side winning would be competition.  Sport is activity one chooses to engage in for their pleasuse or leisure.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by worrierking (March 17, 2009 4:07 pm ET)
                   

                I'm not opposed to hunting but it's pretty sad when anyone considers death a sport.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by jamesB (March 17, 2009 4:17 pm ET)
                     

                  i don't hunt either but when one does go hunting with any firearm death is a part of the sport of hunting. I assume that is what the poster above meant.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by snoopy (March 17, 2009 5:31 pm ET)
                       

                    I love hunting (surprised?) and I consider it a sport ONLY IF the hunter is acting like a real hunter. I can't stand hunters who toss out corn feed to train a deer to keep going to one spot so they can kill it quick. Those aren't sportsmen, they are lazy joes who think they are hunters. The NRA used to rail against that type of idiot, under Wayne LaPierre they became the NRA base. Sad, really.

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 19, 2009 6:09 pm ET)
                       

                    Not for the prey, punk. Not for the prey. Life and death is about as competitive as it gets, little factose-intolerant fella.

                    Oy, you're one sick, twisted simple schmuck, dd and bb. Ya really oughta go easy on the ammo and buy yourself a case and a clue, little fella.

                    Report Abuse
            • Author by dj50bmg1746 (March 17, 2009 5:34 pm ET)
                 

              Give me a solid reason why a firearm so populer among citizens, and so rarely used in crime, should be banned?(if you're not aware, rifles of all types are used in just 3% of gun crimes, and just a fraction of those involving rifles based on the AR platform)

              The bottom line here is the onus is not on me to prove why its ok for me or many, many gun owners to leagally own an AR-15.  Rather, the government must prove why it needs to ban that particular firearm.

              Is your objective to reduce crime and improve public safety, or just ban guns?  If your objective is the former, and based on something other than irrational fear of scary looking black rifles, there are far more effective measures you could support.

              For example:  Every year hundreds of thousands of felons fail to pass the national background check system attempting to purchase a firearm.  If you don't already know, just the attemped purchase of a firearm by a felon is a crime.  Sure, they are denied the gun then, but nothing else happens.  Felons illegally trying to purchase firearms face no consequences from this act, and are free to roam the streets to pick up a gun on the black market.

              Why doesn't the media wave the bloody shirt about this, why don't anti-gun, err, "public saftey" minded polititions demand these guys be rounded up and thrown in prison like they should be?   Why are Mr. Obama and his AG more conerned with infringing on my 2nd Amendment rights under the guise of helping Mexico, than making sure hundreds of thousands of felons, whom the government knows about, get taken off the streets here in our own country?

              Report Abuse
              • Author by worrierking (March 17, 2009 6:44 pm ET)
                   

                Again with the scary looking black rifles? I've got more experience than most here with the full auto version of the AR 15 so go peddle that tough guy bit somewhere else.

                Nowhere have I implied that Americans don't have a right to bear arms. I've questioned the right as absolute. If there are no qualifications on the right to bear arms are we all entitled to own our own suitcase nuke? How about grenade launchers?

                Report Abuse
                • Author by dj50bmg1746 (March 17, 2009 7:17 pm ET)
                     

                  Of course not!!!

                  If you want to go by the Supreme Court, read the Heller decision.  Nukes, RPG's, and many weapons heavily regulated under the National Firearms Act, such as machine guns, are not commonly used by the citizenry.  The government can impose just about any restrictions and prohibitions it wants to with these weapons, without fear of violating anyone's rights.

                  Now, AR-15 varients are the top selling high-power rifles sold un the USA, and most definately are in common use. 

                  Still want them banned?

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Tbone Slickens (March 18, 2009 9:50 am ET)
                     

                  Strawman.

                  There are plenty of qualifications to buy, own and fire weapons legally in the US.  If you have the experience you say you have then you know this.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by worrierking (March 18, 2009 10:14 am ET)
                       

                    You might want to look up the definition of the "strawman argument". Could you show where I misrepresented my opponent's position?

                    Show me where I stated that there is no constitutional right to bear arms. There are qualifications on owning and buying firearms, but in some areas there aren't enough. 

                    Look through this thread and get back to me.

                    Report Abuse
      • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 8:11 pm ET)
           

        Nice try. Nah, the thrust of the effort is to get the facts and deal with the situation, but since the facts ain't doin' the residents of gun nut nation any favors, I can see why you'd want them to look elsewhere.

        Gee, that's a shame.

        Then again, if you have evidence that these Mexican cartels aren't getting their guns from US gun dealers and gun show trash, then by all means, feel free to cough it up.

        Bummer.

        Go on, take your time. Like nra nonsense everywhere, your argument ain't goin' nowhere.

        Always a pleasure. 

        Report Abuse
        • Author by dj50bmg1746 (March 17, 2009 8:36 pm ET)
             

          So, your brilliant solution to Mexico's cartel problem is to ban the top-selling high-power rifle in the United States, even though its very rarely used in gun-related crimes???

          You should apply for a job at the UN!

          Report Abuse
          • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 18, 2009 1:45 pm ET)
               

            Is that right?  Is it your clueless-cretin contention that all this illegal drug trafficking-related violence on both sides of the US/Mexican Border is the product of single-shot, breech-loading, Brownington 12-gauges cartel members have been been flocking to US gun shows and getting from irresponsible US gun dealers because they can't get them anywhere or  from anyone but nra nitwits and gun show trash, little fella?

            In the interest of public safety, ya really ought to be required to submit to a field sobriety test after spewin' such psychotic gun nut nonsense, little fella. 

            Go sleep it off before ya get yourself hurt and thank your lucky stars I'm in a good mood.

            Dismissed.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by torgo19687632 (March 19, 2009 12:20 pm ET)
                 

              The violence that has been getting press has been perpetrated with weapons that you aren't going to get at a gun show or gun store.  They also have plenty of other sources (China, nations below their southern border, and even the U.S. government, which has supplied weapons for the drug war).

              Am I the only one who finds jwcoop hilarious?  "...and thank your lucky stars I'm in a good mood."  Or what?  He'll throw in more name calling and end yet another post with a pseudo-tough guy comment?

              Anyway, some housekeeping:

              Grenade launchers are legal and not too hard to get.  Ordinance for them is not.  Same goes for RPGs.

              Guns are used in self-defense far more often than in homicides, accidents, and suicides combined.

              The AR-15 platform, as it is usually constructed, is not high power.  Ammunition for real assault rifles is by definition a mid-powered round.  Hunting larger game with them is actually not permitted in some states, not because "assault weapons" are overkill, but because they aren't powerful enough.  Most typical deer rifles are substantially more powerful than an AR, AK or any other scary looking rifle.  If the D.C. sniper had used an average hunting rifle, the death toll would have almost surely been higher.

              Report Abuse
          • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 19, 2009 6:21 pm ET)
               

            So, your brilliant solution to Mexico's cartel problem is to ban the top-selling high-power rifle in the United States, even though its very rarely used in gun-related crimes???

            Feel free to point out just when and where I said that, little factually-challenged fella. Take your time. Like your factually-challenged, lunatic-fringe, gun nut nonsense, you're not goin' anywhere.

            If you've got a problem with Mexican Drug Dealers having their access to guns purchased in the US restricted, you're not just part of the problem. You are the problem.

            Get busted dealing illegal drugs, you're gonna go to jail. Sell a gun to a Mexican Drug Dealer- win a trip to the slam. Sell a gun to a Mexican drug dealer who kills somebody - there's a needle with your name on it, schmuck.

            Dismissed.

            Report Abuse
        • Author by Tbone Slickens (March 18, 2009 9:56 am ET)
             

          If the hippie junkie trash would quit buying the coke the CARTELS are pushing and they're inhaliing/smoking as fast as they can, then there would be no use for the guns now would they? 

          Drug trash

          Report Abuse
          • Author by eweston8542983 (March 18, 2009 10:58 am ET)
               

            Drug info, over ten years old, is relevent to today's scene, how?

            Report Abuse
          • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 18, 2009 1:55 pm ET)
               

            Just which part of illegal drug trafficking is givin' your sorry, simple, gun show trash butt trouble, little fella?

            Is it really your clueless-cretin contention that the ILLEGAL drugs involved in the ILLEGAL drug trafficking activities and the resultant collateral damage being inflicted on innocent people on both sides of the border because cartel members are flocking across the border to purchase firearms from gun show trash on this side of the border aren't ILLEGAL  enough for ya, little fella?

            You nra nitwits really oughta know better than to shoot first and think, take aim and ask questions later.

            Report Abuse
    • Author by mthalo (March 17, 2009 2:33 pm ET)
         

      I saw plenty of media coverage on television and in print, with each of the incidents listed by Mr. Boehlert. It sounds like Mr. Boehlert is just upset that the media isn't covering the issue with the gun control spin HE thinks they should be using, as evidenced by his invocation of the NRA bogeyman.

      The surge in gun sales since the election of Obama should tell any thinking person how most Americans really feel about the Second Amendment.

      Gun control has ceased to be a right vs. left issue, and that's something that isn't understood by the talking point parrots on either side of the fence.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by wookie (March 17, 2009 2:41 pm ET)
           

        And yet 8 years of domestic spying and legalized torture didn't lead to a surge in gun sales. Go figure.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 3:48 pm ET)
             

          Ah, so there were no spikes in gun sales after 9/11 or the Obama election, eh, little fella?

          Nice try. No sale.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by wookie (March 17, 2009 8:14 pm ET)
               

            Huh? My point was that the "resist government tyranny" types were totally silent while the Bushies were destroying civil liberties.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by roundhouse (March 17, 2009 9:35 pm ET)
                 

              Righties don't really care if our government is an authoritarian or totalitarian government, so long as the right people are in charge.

              Report Abuse
      • Author by jamesB (March 17, 2009 2:47 pm ET)
           

        great post.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by kbalderson1680 (March 17, 2009 4:45 pm ET)
           

        Wow...  After picking through all of the baseless, insulting, off topic posts I am glad to see that someone actually "gets" what is going on.  All of the statistics in the world will not change the fact the Americans like guns.  Plain and simple.  I know so many Obama voting, left leaning, rifle owning liberals I can't count them.  That's right, rifle owning.  The kind that hold 30 rounds, are semi-auto, have a collapsable stock and all that good stuff...

        mthalo has it dead on.  It's not right vs left.  It's gun advocates vs gun contollers...

        Who cares about a boyonet lug anyway...

        Report Abuse
        • Author by mthalo (March 17, 2009 6:39 pm ET)
             

          I moved from NYC to Florida a couple of years ago, and one thing that will never get a lot of media coverage is the fact that so many transplants from predominantly Democratic cities like New York, Chicago and Boston, quickly buy handguns once they actually learn what the U.S. gun laws are.

          Few even know what the U.S. gun laws are before moving to a state where they could own one without having to jump through an endless series of loops in order to exercise their rights.  

          Report Abuse
        • Author by snoopy (March 17, 2009 7:07 pm ET)
             

          I'm one of them, and sure, I like guns. I just can't stand ignorant idiots who mix drinking and shooting, or drinking and hunting, or corn feeding kill shots, or various other irresponsible acts associated with guns. When all is said and done, it may be a right, but it's one that should be earned, not given freely.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 7:54 pm ET)
             

          America likes fried foods and consuming high fructose corn syrup in large quantities, too. That don't make 'em good for ya or the country.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by gjdagis (March 17, 2009 4:01 pm ET)
         

      There is good reason why covering these events is lessening; in a country of over 300,000,000 people they are actually relatively rare. Much more would be accomplished if the media covered violence, period, and not fragment it into pet causes such as gun violence, hate crime violence, or domestic violence !

      Secondly, I think that the thousands of stories concerning how a gun prevented a horrific crime or murder should be given coverage. Talk about a shortage of coverage in the media ! Now this lack of coverage is virtually an absolute !

      Report Abuse
      • Author by mthalo (March 17, 2009 5:37 pm ET)
           

        Bohlert uses the term "gun control" ten times in this piece, and never  bothered to bring up the current German gun laws while complaining about the media's coverage of the shooting over there.

        I don't think that violence, period, is his primary concern.

        More likely, it's the perception that every gun ownership rights advocate in America is a "right-wing nutjob", and therefore the enemy, is the driving force behind his issue with the media coverage.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 7:44 pm ET)
             

          Bohlert uses the term "gun control" ten times in this piece, and never  bothered to bring up the current German gun laws while complaining about the media's coverage of the shooting over there.

          Just which part of Germany is not part of or subject to the US gun laws is givin' you trouble, little factually-challenged fella?

          The "Rampage Nation" title would have been your first clue. The text of the article was your second.

          You don't happen to play poker, do ya, little fella? For the sake of any love ones saddled with your sorry butt - don't. 

          I don't think that violence, period, is his primary concern.

          If nothing else, little fella, you've certainly established that you don't think at all.

          More likely, it's the perception that every gun ownership rights advocate in America is a "right-wing nutjob", and therefore the enemy, is the driving force behind his issue with the media coverage.

          More likely, your next case and your next clue will be your first. Enjoy poppin' your cherry, chump.

          Always a pleasure.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by mthalo (March 18, 2009 12:31 pm ET)
               

            You'll have to ask one of your friends about the logical relationship between a shooting in Germany and US gun laws. I neither have the time or the desire to educate you.

            In fact, since you have little interest in having an intelligent discussion (on MediaMatters, what a surprise) and just want to hurl insults, I'll leave you with the following statement.

            You are the gun lobby's best friend.  

            Report Abuse
            • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 18, 2009 2:09 pm ET)
                 

              You'll have to ask one of your friends about the logical relationship between a shooting in Germany and US gun laws. I neither have the time or the desire to educate you.

              In other words, you've got no case, no clue and no answer. Gee, thanks for clearin' that up, little factually-challenged fella.

              Take your psychotic gun show slop back to freeperville, little fella.

                

              Report Abuse
            • Author by kbalderson1680 (March 18, 2009 2:58 pm ET)
                 

              Agreed.... I'm going to run out and by 6 more AR15's today on the off chance that anyone remotely resembling jwpoop715110 ever has a say in gun ownership policy in this fine land. 

              If the jwpoops of the world keep drinking the kool - aid every moderate man, woman and child in the good ole' US of A will be strapped to the teeth by the end of this administration.

              Maybe ACORN kind find out who's packin what when they are running the next cencus.

              Report Abuse
      • Author by snoopy (March 17, 2009 7:59 pm ET)
           

        You mean like how that dude in texas called 9-11 about his neighbor's house and told the cops he was gonna take action before they arrived and then stepped outside and shot an unarmed robber in the back and killed him? Yeah, that would go over well...

        Report Abuse
    • Author by tbone (March 17, 2009 5:30 pm ET)
         

      Not to be confused with the imposter Tbone (Slickens), Boehlert's got nothing here.

      FBI National Crime Statistics - Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter rates:

      1991 - 9.8/100,000

      2007 - 5.6/100,000

      It's been in the mid 5's for over a decade (including after repeal of the Brady Bill).  The black scary guns aren't the problem.  You really want to lower the crime rate, then handguns are the overwhelmingly preferred weapon of crime.  But here's the thing - while I don't own one and don't really want to own one - I don't have the right to tell the single mother who walks home from the subway every night through the worst of the inner city that I get to take her's away.  Her call, her right.  When you can address why society's right outweighs her right, then I'll listen.  Otherwise, deal with it.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by dj50bmg1746 (March 17, 2009 6:30 pm ET)
           

        Is it a coincidence that the stock price of Smith & Wesson has tripled since Obama was elected?

        Holy economic stimuli, Batman!!!

        Report Abuse
        • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 19, 2009 6:27 pm ET)
             

          Lord, there's a Black Man in the White House! Lock up the guns and the white women.

          Gun show trash is a bigger problem than the drug dealers.

          Nobody died so you could get your mitts on an RPG, schmuck.  Innocent people die because of gun show trash.

          Make a note of it.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by Dalinkwent13 (March 17, 2009 5:39 pm ET)
         

      Whats even funnier is every time there is a  school shooting, instead of the media wondering how teens got there hand on auto-matic weapons, they instead focus on what video games they played or if they liked rap music.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by Sagra (March 17, 2009 6:08 pm ET)
         

      A man shot 5 students from Chile in Miramar Beach, Florida on February 26.  It looks a lot more like a hate crime than the Alabama shootings, but didn't get any national coverage at all.

      Apparently more newsworthy: a wingnut who posted a pair of anti-Obama signs on his property 20 miles away in Fort Walton Beach made Keith Olbermann's worst person list on March 5.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 7:50 pm ET)
           

        A man shot 5 students from Chile in Miramar Beach, Florida on February 26.  It looks a lot more like a hate crime than the Alabama shootings, but didn't get any national coverage at all.

        Ah, so you're goin' with the ol "comparative value of hate crimes" defense, eh, little fella?

        Nice try. No sale. One hate crime does not negate another.

        Apparently more newsworthy: a wingnut who posted a pair of anti-Obama signs on his property 20 miles away in Fort Walton Beach made Keith Olbermann's worst person list on March 5.

        Gee, you poor wingnuts just can't catch a break these days. What's poor, dumb gun show trash gotta do to get noticed around here?!

        Tell your story walkin' and take that gun nut nonsense back to freeperville, little fella.

        Dismissed.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Craig (March 17, 2009 8:00 pm ET)
             

          Slow down and take a breath. Sagra is no wingnut.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by snoopy (March 17, 2009 8:16 pm ET)
               

            I was thinking the same thing. I thought he was being sarcastic.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 17, 2009 10:19 pm ET)
                 

              That's usually a safe bet.

              Hey, if I'm mistaken about Sagra's meaning, I apologize. The Fort Walton Beach nut-job was still a good story.  If KO confines worst persons to gun show trash gone off the rails, there'd be no time for anything else.

              The militia mutts are due to start makin' noise now that we've returned to intelligent, competent, qualified and legitimately-elected Presidents and they no longer have a kindred spirit or member of their intellectual peer group squatting in the White House.

              Then there's that whole pigmentation problem thing.

              Still, at the end of the day, even amongst brain-dead bushleaguers and gops - a party comprised largely of investment bankers and ignorant bigots - kukluxkrishtins and gun show trash are the lowest of the low. The scum de la scum.

              Report Abuse
    • Author by bondsman4942 (March 17, 2009 6:45 pm ET)
         

      Once more it seems that gun control is becoming an issue here in the United States and over seas. Guns being used by unstable people to take the lives of others is the cause of this new offensive even though Germany has one of the strictest gun regulations, now they are talking of going in to homes to look for firearms. The major problem with gun control is that you can take guns from the law abiding citizen but what about the criminal element are they going to stop in and hand over their guns? Of course not and if confiscated they will get more. Whose home would they most likely target one that may be armed or one unarmed? If the likely hood that the planned victim is armed and they may get shot and killed will they look for some place else to rob instead? So in fact disarming citizens to lessen crime is less than logical and not the real agenda for disarming citizens. So the idea that by giving away or letting the right to keep and bear arms does not increase security but diminishes it.

      For the past several years we have been hearing about a “NEW WORLD ORDER” and this is they way to get it. How you may you say, well first if the citizens are disarmed then the government will not fear that the citizens will rebel at what they do. Like do away with the freedom of speech so that the government could not be condemned for actions taken and the propaganda put out would be the only news or words you would hear. Also freedom of religion would need to go as well you could not have someone standing in the front of place of worship saying anything adverse about the government. Then too the need to know that everyone is following this New Order there would be no protection from unreasonable searches or seizures by the government. The military would be brought ageist its own citizens since by that time most of the people would be indoctrinated to believe that the government its doing what is best for the country and the world and will even turn in family to the government. You pick the Freedom and it will be gone.

      Dictatorships and tyrants need to start some place and disarming the citizens is only a start but it is for your own good they tell us. This is not a new idea it has been used before Hitler did it quite well and look where that got us but then to it was just his people, then those he over ran, what we are looking at now it the world taking away arms from the people so that only the Governments have the arms to defend themselves from the people. If our gun rights go enslavement will follow and it will not take that long. What we need in office are former military people that know the real cost of war and what freedom is and means, it is not giving your life for your country but having the enemy give his. Few in office now are of that breed what we have are politicians that want more power and money and they need to take it from us but to do so they need our guns first. So look for what is hidden in the bills that are passed, you may think that one right or freedom is not important or needed any more but as one falls so the others will follow and the more restrictions put on them the sooner they will fall.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by BoboSoetoro (March 18, 2009 1:10 am ET)
         

      "The pro-gun advocate, who represented a radical minority in America,"

      ......by 'radical minority', I assume the auther refers to the 75% (per Rasmussen) of Americans who support our 2nd Amendment gun rights.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by kels941566 (March 18, 2009 6:06 am ET)
         

      Eric, you really want to dance on the blood of the victims and tell these lies: "The pro-gun advocate, who represented a radical minority in America, was put on the same footing as the gun-control advocate, whose views reflected the clear plurality of Americans, who have consistently called for stricter gun laws."  First, demanding one's rights under the Second Amendment isn't radical - advocating supressing someone's Second Amendment rights is radical.  Second - we are not a minority.  Third, the majority of Americans do NOT support strickter gun laws.  Perhaps we should modify Charleton Heston's words from "From my cold, dead hands," to "Out of your cold, dead hands."

      Report Abuse
      • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 18, 2009 2:22 pm ET)
           

        Clearly, those stats and gun show trash talkin' points for pinheads are straight outta your cold, clueless, cavernous cabeza, little factose-intolerant fella. 

        Ya gonna tell me about all the troops who died in all the wars so your sorry, simple, gun show trash butt could have free and unfettered access to an RPG and weapons-grade plutonium in order to cope with your terminal penis envy, little fella?

        No, they didn't.

        The First Amendment isn't absolute, sport. Neither is the Second. Ya got the same right to bear arms as I do. It's not an unlimited right.

        Make a note of it, nitwit.

        Always a pleasure.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by jcalton (March 18, 2009 2:12 pm ET)
         

      I think that you are confusing fact-finding and policy-making when you talk about what journalism's role should be. How does coverage of the rampage in Alabama remotely compare to that of Watergate (a comparison you made)?

      Did Woodward and Bernstein call for Nixon's impeachment, stricter campaign laws, etc? Or did they "wait" for congress to do that? A: They waited. They investigated then reported the facts. They were reporters, not pundits.

      I'm not 100% positive that the words "gun control" should appear in these stories in the first 36 hours of the rampage. The details are still emerging at that point, and the press's obligation is to report those facts. Even if a paper wanted to print an editorial about gun control and the rampage, they'd need to wait until they had all of the facts (read: all of the juicy ones) first. Given your 36 hour window, they might have only been able to make one printing deadline, and would they have had enough facts then? I don't know. Maybe it's a GOOD thing they aren't giving their opinions immediately.

      Madhoff pleading guilty WAS news. It was not a mere formality or trivial. Rich people with hordes of lawyers plead not guilty, as a rule. In that respect, it was bigger news than the arraignment of Enron executives or Jack Abramhoff (who all plead not guilty). Madhoff's case obviously affects a lot more people than the Alabama incident, if only monetarily, and not bodily.

      P.S. I urge everyone to give all the Bill of Rights equal weight. The left and the right both pick-and-choose which ones they think should be enforced. Either support them all (including the 2nd) or cast them all aside. Please.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Brabantio (March 19, 2009 9:38 am ET)
           

        I don't believe he said that reporters should advocate policy:"And that those stories also represented a large enough news hook that related topics, such as gun control, could be introduced into the coverage. Not in an activist way, but as an obvious topic of discussion and exploration."  It seems sort of silly to compare it to a fantasy of Woodward and Bernstein calling for impeachment.

        I also don't believe he said that Madoff's guilty plea wasn't newsworthy at all.  He was comparing the coverage that they got.  If they got equal coverage, then that would be more understandable.  That's a question of proportion.  My favorite example of this was a small plane crash about twenty years ago, which killed four or five people (if I remember rightly).  The local station interrupted their programming to alert everyone to the incident, which was fine.  A couple of minutes to inform the viewers, no problem.  The problem was that interrupted several more times, and never to bring any new, significant details.  Most of them were basically "They're all still dead".  We saw five minutes of some farmer hemming and hawwing about what he saw.  Riveting.  Meanwhile, the movie had been very interesting, but viewers were lost after all the interruptions.  The station caught hell for it, of course.

        Your "equal weight" comment is overly simplistic.  Does the Third Amendment apply today, or does one have to burn the entire document because that Amendment is obsolete?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 19, 2009 10:45 am ET)
             

          Does the Third Amendment apply today, or does one have to burn the entire document because that Amendment is obsolete?

          Why wouldn't the Third Amendment apply today--has the idea of the government being able to mandate that homeowners quarter troops in their homes somehow become less repugnant? 

          Granted, it hasn't appeared to have shown much potential of becoming an issue in quite a long time (not since Engblom v. Cary, perhaps?), but that doesn't mean that protection against such problems doesn't apply.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Brabantio (March 19, 2009 12:34 pm ET)
               

            "Granted, it hasn't appeared to have shown much potential of becoming an issue in quite a long time..."

            Exactly the point, maybe "outdated" would have been a better word for me to use.  We also no longer need citizen militias for our national defense, which is a key condition in the Second Amendment.  That makes levels of gun control and regulation a valid debate without violating the spirit of the Constitution, contrary to the suggestion in question.

            If you need to be called up to fight enemy forces in the streets, then you should probably be allowed to have a flamethrower or whatever else (protection against the problem of being denied arms would apply).  Otherwise, sensible restrictions are perfectly appropriate.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by jwcoop715110 (March 19, 2009 6:32 pm ET)
               

            Like Mexican Drug Cartel Members killing innocent people with guns purchased from US gun dealers and gun show trash on both sides of the border, gun show trash is the enemy in the streets, schmuck.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Kurt Hofmann--St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner (March 19, 2009 11:41 pm ET)
                 

              By "gun show trash," and "enemy in the streets," I take it you mean the scores of millions of peaceable gun owners like me, who among us have caused fewer innocent deaths than has Ted "The Hero of Chappaquiddick" Kennedy, right?

              Keep it coming, genius, your contempt is a badge of honor.

              Report Abuse
    • Author by twseattle (March 20, 2009 6:46 am ET)
         

      When Columbine happened, it diddn't surprise me at all. My father was shot and killed during a robbery in Denver in his luxury condo. It always seemed like a violent town to me even before that, one of the reasons I never followed my family there. This was in the mid 80's. During the columbine attacks, my Mom and my Brothers family were having lunch very nearby and saw all the response vehicles wondering what was going on.

      Anyone who remembers the way the conservatives turned on Brady for the meager gun laws he proposed should not be shocked at the disappearance of gun control as an issue. They've had their high dollar lobby spreading the money heavily on the politicians to make sure the issue stays buried.

      The funny thing is; I'm not opposed to the guns, kind of fun to target shoot, but tighter controls would not hurt anyone. When my Brother was a kid he liked magic and you had to register yourself to get flash paper because it was an explosive. Common sense seems to say that things that are much more dangerous require more rules.

      The worst part is the lives destroyed. Tragic deaths and people who live with the aftermath. Took Me fifteen years to finally find a shrink who helped me really deal with PTSD in a way that let me become more functional. Still haven't graduated from college. Also caused me to lose my Air Force pilot training slot. And fiance' at the time. And more than a few jobs.

      The U.S. will never be a country where guns are illegal, but the idea of unlimited gun ownership, or that having a gun makes you safer is too extreme to be correct.

      Report Abuse